Time for Rifles to Go?

[octavia9299]

The argument for keeping rifles is that since everyone uses them, technique is fairly standardized and precise (I know, I know there are different sizes and weights and techniques...) and kids get training from their HS bands and winterguards. If everyone started using a differently shaped chunk of wood, that would all change.

So it doesn't have to be rifles, but who picks the new industry standard?

P.s., I love watching rifle. It's like experiencing visual math.

[X DM]

Your ignorance regarding a rifle is astounding. I'm not sure where you got this kooky idea, but it sure is kooky. A rifle is as American as Apple Pie. And Drum and Bugle Corps is ( or was ) as American as Apple Pie. A rifle is not primarily designed to " shoot people ". Before you got your food from the local grocery mart, a rifle was( and still is in some quarters and in emergencies ) a method by which one fed themselves and their family. Not only in the United States, but throughout the civilized world. The rifle is also designed as a method of self defense in an area where there may be little or no effective law enforcement, and likewise a recognized and accepted tool utiilized in modern warfare to defend one's homeland from attack. A " South American " who seems puzzled by " costumes " in a show is itself puzzling. Most" South Americans" routinely dress up in all manner of unconventional garb when in theatrical or celebratory exhibitions, and it's as natural to most "South Americans " as is the rifle. Yours was a most unusual post it seems to me.

Edited August 22, 2007 by X DM

[VKMello84]

George Hopkins tried that in 2001, using what can best be described as comma-shaped guard equipment. I assume they had the same basic feel and weight as a rifle so there wouldn't be much in the way of transition for guard members. Cadets switched back to rifles in 2002 when they did their 9-11/WWII/1995 Cadets show and has been using rifles ever since.

Thanks to corpsreps.com, here is a picture of the corps with guard members holding the "commas".

Cadets had a single unit guard for several years in the 80's. I think Blue Devils rarely use rifles. The thing is already as open as it can possibly be.

[danielray]

I believe that it's important to hold onto these little links to the past, even in the face of political incorrectness (or whatever you would call Daniel's arguement).

Hmm... I'd say I'm about the most politically incorrect person you might come across.

There is a difference between claiming something is politically incorrect or potentially dangerous/socially irresponsible.

Toy stores didn't stop stocking toy guns because of political correctness, but because of a string of lawsuits from kids copying habits of toy guns the same as real.

Why hold on to these links of the past when they no longer make sense in the current context?

[PCSoprano9702]

A) Lots of groups spin non-guns (technically, they all do). I seem to recall "Oprah Commas" coming out when I marched. Oprah didn't like girls spinning guns in this day and age either, and someone invented a thing that looks like a comma but has similar visual effect to a prop rifle. However, I believe if a child is old enough to make the association between the (rather non-rifle-looking) rifles on the field and a real rifle, and strong enough to attempt to weild one, the kid has likely already been made well aware of the dangers he or she is facing.

B) It's handgun violence that's increasing. Not that I think that matters a great deal. However, I think it is hard to associate gun violence with drum corps. Were they spinning AK 47s, perhaps. But our culture doesn't glorify "bustin' a cap" with a repeating rifle. Gang stabings are in the news locally, and I never thought to consider that the high school has a sabre line...

I should think that the presence of the USMC drum corps (and recruiters) at finals, the numbers of corps members that enter the military, the awesome thing with BD after retreat, and the presence of sabres, flags, plumes, the roll step, saluting, uniform apparel, the Troopers, etc culminate in the activity being something less than "well beyond" its military roots.

I think you and Oprah are fighting an imaginary monster.

[Penguin]

Your ignorance regarding a rifle is astounding. I'm not sure where you got this kooky idea, but it sure is kooky. A rifle is an American as apple pie. And Drum and Bugle Corps is ( or was ) as American as Apple Pie. A rifle is not primarily designed to " shoot people ". Before you got your food from the local grocery mart, a rifle was( and still is in some quarters and in emergencies ) a method by which one fed themselves and their family. Not only in the United States, but throughout the civilized world. The rifle is also designed as a method of self defense in an area where there may be little or no effective law enforcement, and likewise a recognized and accepted tool utiilized in modern warefare to defend one's homeland from attack. A " South American " who seems puzzled by " costumes " in a show is itself puzzling. Most" South Americans" routinely dress up in all manner of unconventional garb when in theatrical or celebratory exhibitions, and it's as natural to most "South Americans ". as is the rifle. Yours was a most unusual post it seems to me.

As was yours.

Rifles were primarily designed to kill living things.

Also, the rifle emerged in the 15th century... long before most of the world even knew about the land we now call "America". Not exactly apple pie. Just saying.

[Guardguy89]

I think the problem comes in judging the guard caption.

Back in the '80's guards were part of the GE score - so we tried all kinds of different things (umbrellas, easels, paint brushes, wings, streamers, the kitchen sink) you name it we tried it since the only score was GE - so effect driven.

I remember in the mid to late '80's where most of the top guards didn't even have rifle lines anymore (look at '85!)

But - as guards began to count on the sheets, there needed to be more consistancy in what was being spun in order for comparisons to be made.

Rifles, sabers and flags are "traditional instumentation" (just like snares, quads, basses and pit equipment). It's a part of drum corps - and I for one don't buy the argument that seeing someone spin a rifle can lead to danger.

If anything - we are showing alternative uses for what could be considered a dangerous weapon.

Later,

Mike

Edited August 22, 2007 by Guardguy89

[audiodb]

So, why spin something that not only makes zero sense, but it modeled after something designed to kill?

Given the above, I fail to see why you single out rifles, while sabres are not a problem.

[Penguin]

Hmm... I'd say I'm about the most politically incorrect person you might come across.

There is a difference between claiming something is politically incorrect or potentially dangerous/socially irresponsible.

Toy stores didn't stop stocking toy guns because of political correctness, but because of a string of lawsuits from kids copying habits of toy guns the same as real.

Why hold on to these links of the past when they no longer make sense in the current context?

Well... like I said... there are other things drum corps do don't really make sense, but they do them in the name of tradition.

We associate rifles with drum corps. They are a symbol of drum corps. Although I suppose I wouldn't really object to it, exchanging rifles for crescents or wooden poles or anything else would be considered by many to be making the activity "less drum corps", if you will.

[VKMello84]

There is a difference between claiming something is politically incorrect or potentially dangerous/socially irresponsible.

I doubt I am alone in finding the assertion that using rifles as guard equipment is dangerous/socially irresponsible to be absurd. The number of children of an age that would play with loaded weapons who have an awareness of color guard is minimal at best. Children with access to loaded weapons are going to play with them regardless, and know of much more interesting things to do with them than trying to spin and toss them. And when there is some sort of accident with a loaded weapon, it is the fault of the person who allowed access to the weapon, and no on else's.