atlvalet Posted August 30, 2007 Share Posted August 30, 2007 (edited) n/m Edited August 30, 2007 by atlvalet Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atlvalet Posted August 30, 2007 Share Posted August 30, 2007 2004 SCV - best drumline I've ever seen. How old are you? Just curious. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueSteelRifle Posted August 31, 2007 Share Posted August 31, 2007 Correct me if I'm wrong, but didnt the old judging system award execution even more. The tic system seems to be 100% execution based to me. Im not disagreeing that shows are less entertaining, but i dont buy your reasoning at all.... At DCI in 74 General Effect was 30% of the score (it may have also been for 72 and 73 but I can't remember). But it seems as if general effect was measured differently than the equivalent captions are today. We often measured our success by how many standing ovations we could get during a show and the judges took note of the crowd response also. Not sure that crowd response is a big factor today. It may be that 70% of our score was execution, but GE and exection were closely linked. I don't believe you could really seperate the two. There is nothing as exciting to me as seeing a perfectly executed guard or drill move. You can do extemely hard moves but if there are drops and errors the effect is lost (or it is to me anyway). So I guess it depends on what is entertaining to you. Corps of today amaze me (the talent is way above what we had in my day) but they don't really entertain me. Its been a long time since I have been propelled out of my seat in a spontaneous standing ovation. Give me a loud horn line, a company front and a perfectly execting color guard any day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Einstein On The Beach Posted August 31, 2007 Share Posted August 31, 2007 What I find amazing is that people looked at Cavies Frameworks as being "Innovative": when all the really did was copy choreography from the "historically black colleges and their marching bands."That said, I have to agree with the comment that judging need to be revised away from the purely execution point of view. I don't care how well executed it is if it bores me to tears. Yes, I credit the corps with executed well. But executing what??? A misconceived concept? 10 minutes of running around on the field playing half and whole notes? Seems to me there should be a captions for musicality, show design and entertainment value. That should correct, IMO, the hideously misguided GE scores over the last few years. It seems the less melody you play, the higher your Music GE score is. As an example, explain to me how at finals this year the Cavies Music GE score was 3rd while the PR Music GE score was 6th? Or how PR's Music GE score was a full point lower than BD's? It seems as if playing melody is not only not rewarded, its discouraged. Makes absolutely no sense to me. How far did you have to reach up your ### to get this information? Do you know what's on the judging sheets at all? It's funny, so many "legacy" fans complain about the LACK of execution in todays shows, saying that there's too much emphasis on GE. Infact, how many threads have been made saying that the tic system should be brought back because apparently modern junior corps don't march well or something (which is actually pretty laughable). GE = General Effect, whether you like it or not, show designers are doing everything they can to make coherent productions that connect with people, and they seem to be pretty successful year in and year out. Just because YOU don't like something doesn't make it bad. By the way "Ed", there ARE captions for musicality and show design. Repertoire is scored under the GE caption if I'm not mistaken. I'm going to be honest, I don't know the judging sheets inside and out like some do since my corps wasn't exactly passing out copies of recap sheets to everyone when we got on the bus. I don't even remember what we scored at finals... Another thing, 10 minutes of "running around playing half and whole notes"? Aside from being as far from an actual correct statement as humanly possible, I'd like to see you perform any of the shows in the top 12. Yeah, I'm sure you'd do a great job. It's a shame we don't have any melodies..oh wait. One more thing, the Cavaliers had more "melodies" in their show than Phantom. Something tells me Billy Joel is more traditionally melodic than Philip Glass and Igor Stravinsky, but maybe I'm just nuts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrumCorpsFan27 Posted August 31, 2007 Share Posted August 31, 2007 How far did you have to reach up your ### to get this information? Do you know what's on the judging sheets at all? It's funny, so many "legacy" fans complain about the LACK of execution in todays shows, saying that there's too much emphasis on GE. Infact, how many threads have been made saying that the tic system should be brought back because apparently modern junior corps don't march well or something (which is actually pretty laughable). Well, it depends where you are watching. Corps are very good at looking fairly clean from the front (as they should). However, if you want to see how well a corps really executes their drill, Todd Ryan would tell you to watch it from the corner of the stadium. You see a lot more dirt from their. The tick system could reduce the number of drops and or step-outs to make a catch. To me, that's part of execution. One could theoretically say that it gets marked down in GE, but does it really? I don't know. GE = General Effect, whether you like it or not, show designers are doing everything they can to make coherent productions that connect with people, and they seem to be pretty successful year in and year out. Just because YOU don't like something doesn't make it bad. While I won't get into arguing this point, understand that the guidelines for the caption of GE are mostly about specific things and not general concepts, as one might think. I had this conversation with one of The Cavaliers visual techs, listening to the comments that the judge made, and he agreed. GE is somewhat of a misnomer. By the way "Ed", there ARE captions for musicality and show design. Repertoire is scored under the GE caption if I'm not mistaken. I'm going to be honest, I don't know the judging sheets inside and out like some do since my corps wasn't exactly passing out copies of recap sheets to everyone when we got on the bus. I don't even remember what we scored at finals... Another thing, 10 minutes of "running around playing half and whole notes"? Aside from being as far from an actual correct statement as humanly possible, I'd like to see you perform any of the shows in the top 12. Yeah, I'm sure you'd do a great job. It's a shame we don't have any melodies..oh wait.One more thing, the Cavaliers had more "melodies" in their show than Phantom. Something tells me Billy Joel is more traditionally melodic than Philip Glass and Igor Stravinsky, I think many corps are trying to get away from the tendencies of choppy musical arrangements, which makes me quite happy. I hope this trend continues. but maybe I'm just nuts. Maybe, but we can discuss that another time! :P Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeD Posted August 31, 2007 Share Posted August 31, 2007 Well, it depends where you are watching. Corps are very good at looking fairly clean from the front (as they should). However, if you want to see how well a corps really executes their drill, Todd Ryan would tell you to watch it from the corner of the stadium. You see a lot more dirt from their. The tick system could reduce the number of drops and or step-outs to make a catch. To me, that's part of execution. One could theoretically say that it gets marked down in GE, but does it really? I don't know. Why would the visual performance judge not evaluate the things you mention...and in the case of a catch the guard person? Those are some of the things they look at. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed Boxer Posted August 31, 2007 Share Posted August 31, 2007 How far did you have to reach up your ### to get this information? Do you know what's on the judging sheets at all? It's funny, so many "legacy" fans complain about the LACK of execution in todays shows, saying that there's too much emphasis on GE. Infact, how many threads have been made saying that the tic system should be brought back because apparently modern junior corps don't march well or something (which is actually pretty laughable). GE = General Effect, whether you like it or not, show designers are doing everything they can to make coherent productions that connect with people, and they seem to be pretty successful year in and year out. Just because YOU don't like something doesn't make it bad. By the way "Ed", there ARE captions for musicality and show design. Repertoire is scored under the GE caption if I'm not mistaken. I'm going to be honest, I don't know the judging sheets inside and out like some do since my corps wasn't exactly passing out copies of recap sheets to everyone when we got on the bus. I don't even remember what we scored at finals... Another thing, 10 minutes of "running around playing half and whole notes"? Aside from being as far from an actual correct statement as humanly possible, I'd like to see you perform any of the shows in the top 12. Yeah, I'm sure you'd do a great job. It's a shame we don't have any melodies..oh wait. One more thing, the Cavaliers had more "melodies" in their show than Phantom. Something tells me Billy Joel is more traditionally melodic than Philip Glass and Igor Stravinsky, but maybe I'm just nuts. Well "Einstein", perhaps you should re-read my post, and then your response. You should realize where you misinterpreted what was clearly stated, and then post an apology for your classless, immature rant. First off, I never wrote about lack of execution or a return to the tic system. Exactly the opposite, I expressed that "judging needs to be revised away from the purely execution point of view." Secondly, I never said anything was "bad" Thirdly, I stated there should be captions for Musicality, Show Design and Entertainment - as opposed to the current GE Captions. Fourthly, I don't know what corps you marched with, but nowhere did I cite a corps name for "running around playing half and whole notes". So any offense you took to that statement was self-inflicted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Einstein On The Beach Posted August 31, 2007 Share Posted August 31, 2007 "Yes, I credit the corps with executed well. But executing what??? A misconceived concept? 10 minutes of running around on the field playing half and whole notes?" It's right there, plain as day. And I won't apologize because I'm right, kthx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvertrombone Posted August 31, 2007 Share Posted August 31, 2007 Was going to post something good, but then the cat fight between generations broke out. In defense of Einstein, I'd like to see guys from the 70's performing today's shows. In defense of Ed, Einstein, calm down, and use appropriate language. Geez. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kusankusho Posted August 31, 2007 Share Posted August 31, 2007 In defense of Einstein, I'd like to see guys from the 70's performing today's shows. If I was 18 again and with the proper training - sure. Today - no #### way!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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