Bob984 Posted August 30, 2007 Share Posted August 30, 2007 Do you mean the Crossmen? The Crossmen were disqualified in 1976 for overage during the regular season...formally at a show in Sevierville....I do not know who the finalist was in 76 in the top 8 who was alledgedly overage......I was in the Crossmen the following year in 77....we had birth certificates on every member, and were "lined up" for "random" age checks multiple times that year........that year, the Bridgemen were disqualified............ GB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob984 Posted August 30, 2007 Share Posted August 30, 2007 At a show, sheets go to the tabulator immediately after turned in by judges....rumor has it the score was tabulated (thus the tabulator would know) and a few people in the vicinity of the tabulator saw/knew as well...then sheets were destroyed shortly thereafter as stated. What would be interesting is that all judges keep a "tote" of their scores for each corps, and I am certain that those who judged know what they gave out....has anyone ever asked those who judged that day to cough up their number so they can be added together....or were they "sworn to secrecy".......until someone who was on that day coughs it up one way or the other, we will never know for certain, and the rumor will live on......... GB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Boo Posted August 30, 2007 Share Posted August 30, 2007 Bob Briske told me the scores were NOT tabulated...they never made it to the tabulator. He never looked at the sheets, they were not opened...so no copies were made. God knows, but He's moved on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KeithHall Posted August 30, 2007 Share Posted August 30, 2007 Yet another rehash of a topic that has been discussed incessantly once the season ends. Again, someone please post links to the various threads discussing this issue. Better yet, do the search yourself BEFORE starting a thread.RM - it's getting old ampssuck Chill little buddy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KeithHall Posted August 30, 2007 Share Posted August 30, 2007 The Crossmen were disqualified in 1976 for overage during the regular season...formally at a show in Sevierville....I do not know who the finalist was in 76 in the top 8 who was alledgedly overage......I was in the Crossmen the following year in 77....we had birth certificates on every member, and were "lined up" for "random" age checks multiple times that year........that year, the Bridgemen were disqualified............GB The corps that I am referring to has been in the finals since...hmmm...75. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brassop Posted August 30, 2007 Share Posted August 30, 2007 (edited) That is the exact story I got from both Don Pesceone and Bob Briske. Neither one even looked at the sheets. The previous weekend, the corps was fourth at the finals of the World Open. Consider the scores from that contest: Blue Devils 91.05, SCV 89.05, 27th Lancers 87.40, Muchachos 86.50. They would have had to make up just over 4.5 points to have won prelims from Worlds, a rumor that refuses to die, and they would have had to do it in six days. You're taking the World Open scores and extrapolating out to DCI which is not relevant because for one, Scouts - the eventual Champion and the corps Muchachos would have needed to overtake - weren't at World Open, and secondly, the spread you reference (between Blue Devils and Muchachos) of 4.5 points was made moot 2 days later when Muchachos beat Blue Devils by 1.25 at CYO Finals. We need to look at that CYO Finals show - just 4 days before DCI Prelims and where Madison and Muchachos went head-to-head - to see how Muchachos stacked up against Madison and how they were closing in. At CYO Finals on August 11th, Scouts won with a 90.55 and Muchachos were second with an 88.70 - just 1.85 behind Madison heading into DCI prelims! Since Hawthorne needed to make up just 1.85 points in 4 days, it's quite plausible that they could have overtaken Scouts by DCI Prelims - particularly given that Madison dropped a full point from there CYO score of 90.55 to their DCI Prelims score of 89.55 - a mere .85 ahead of Muchachos' CYO score. Shows referenced: 8/9 World Open recap: http://www.fromthepressbox.com/19750809worldopen.htm 8/11 CYO Nationals recap: http://www.fromthepressbox.com/19750811cyonationals.htm 8/15 DCI World Championship Prelims: http://www.fromthepressbox.com/19750815div1prelims.htm Edited August 31, 2007 by Brassop Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCIHasBeen Posted August 30, 2007 Share Posted August 30, 2007 (edited) At a show, sheets go to the tabulator immediately after turned in by judges....rumor has it the score was tabulated (thus the tabulator would know) and a few people in the vicinity of the tabulator saw/knew as well...then sheets were destroyed shortly thereafter as stated. What would be interesting is that all judges keep a "tote" of their scores for each corps, and I am certain that those who judged know what they gave out....has anyone ever asked those who judged that day to cough up their number so they can be added together....or were they "sworn to secrecy".......until someone who was on that day coughs it up one way or the other, we will never know for certain, and the rumor will live on.........GB Yeah, it's just a rumor ... The Muchachos were lined up outside the stadium immediately after they came off the field. The overage individual was picked out, and was carrying his wallet. The ID confirmed he was overage. The DCI officials new ahead of time what was going to go down, so Briske had probably been told to obtain and seal the sheets. Again, no great conspiracy in how the action was carried out ... DCI already had procedures in place for this type of situation and carried them out. You've got two people telling you this who heard it directly from Pesceone, as well as other witnesses. Accept that and stop thinking that Mulder and Scully could get at the bottom of this. There is no bottom to get at, except that a rather tragic thing happened to a bunch of kids 32 years ago. Edited August 31, 2007 by DCIHasBeen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tommytimp Posted August 31, 2007 Share Posted August 31, 2007 I've heard that show. (I wasn't there.) I would put them in 2nd or 3rd that day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Boo Posted August 31, 2007 Share Posted August 31, 2007 You're taking the World Open scores and extrapolating out to DCI which is not relevant because for one, Scouts - the eventual winner and the corps Muchachos would have needed to overtake - weren't at World Open, and secondly, the spread you reference (between Blue Devils and Muchachos) of 4.5 points was made moot 2 days later when Muchachos beat Blue Devils by 1.25 at CYO Finals. ... I brought up World Open and not CYO because I was at the former and not the latter, therefore I wasn't even aware of CYO until now. But your point does help make the point that there was a lot of topsy-turvy placements going on, which helps discredit any convictions where the corps would have placed in World prelims, as it could have been about anywhere near the top. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
traverbanking Posted August 31, 2007 Share Posted August 31, 2007 In 1978, my drum instructor, who was active as a judge in the '70s, told me that one of the drum execution judges at the 1975 DCI prelims found two ticks in the Muchachos' performance and the other drum execution judge found no ticks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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