Tom Brace Posted October 11, 2007 Share Posted October 11, 2007 Actually, that's not exactly true. The difference between the World Class and Open Class sheets is basically a 10 point handicap. Which means that a 95 in Open Class is equil to an 85 in World Class. And lest anyone think that is a myth (which can be myth busted anyway if you just look at the sheets themselves and compare the numbers), Magic proved this in 2002 (which was the last year a Division II corps was allowed to compete in the Division I Championship activities). I also think Academy proved this pretty weel considering they were right about the same level both in 06 and 07 (some suggesting 06 possibly being a little better) and their 06 score was a 95 and their 07 score was a high 84. With that in mind, it's very safe to assume that the top Open Class corps are very close to the level of a DCI finalist...so why can't they have a shot at some TV time. And I'm only talking a few seconds here. Not much to ask in the grand scheme of things. This is silly. They are two different sheets. PERIOD. There are no judges rules saying to score Div. II/III corps 10 points higher than they really should be scored. And here comes Magic again. Magic proved nothing in 2002. If they would have been in Div. I all year, Div. II would have had a much better season. It is an anomoly and will NEVER happen again. This past season, Div. IIs best corps from 2006 finished 13th in Div. I. That's the closest anyone is going to come. I figure Surf and Spartans will finish somewhere 15th-19th when they come up to World Class in '08. So, let's be real here. I'd rather see 15 seconds of Madison's '07 show than 15 seconds of either Surf or Spartans. I bet if the poll was in the World Class forum, the stats would agree with me on that point as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Brace Posted October 11, 2007 Share Posted October 11, 2007 Score lower according to who tom? They are not judged on the same sheets...so its not proven that the 13-17th place corps are better than the top two. 2006 Div. II Champion scored 13th in Div. I in their first year. The Academy beat Surf and Spartans in 06. I am wagering Surf and Spartans will finish between 15th and 19th next year when they come up to World Class. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Brace Posted October 11, 2007 Share Posted October 11, 2007 Why aren't the 13 to 17 corps screaming for coverage and all of Open Class is? Just curious? Because they understand that getting on the broadcast is something you EARN through your performance and is not a gift just because you showed up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dsb2007 Posted October 11, 2007 Author Share Posted October 11, 2007 (edited) This is silly. They are two different sheets. PERIOD. There are no judges rules saying to score Div. II/III corps 10 points higher than they really should be scored.And here comes Magic again. Magic proved nothing in 2002. BULL! Magic proved MORE than you want to admit. You are just in demial! If they would have been in Div. I all year, Div. II would have had a much better season. It is an anomoly and will NEVER happen again.This past season, Div. IIs best corps from 2006 finished 13th in Div. I. That's the closest anyone is going to come. I figure Surf and Spartans will finish somewhere 15th-19th when they come up to World Class in '08. So, let's be real here. I'd rather see 15 seconds of Madison's '07 show than 15 seconds of either Surf or Spartans. I bet if the poll was in the World Class forum, the stats would agree with me on that point as well. See, there you go again. Negative...negative...negative. Can't say ANYHTING positive about the current Open Class activity. I'm beginning to think you are jealous. It's the only excuse I can give you for being the most negative person on this board regarding the new Open Class. And before you try to bring the "I'm being realistic" excuse up...NO...you are not because clearly...you are in DENIAL about what corps like Magic, Academy, Blue Stars Captiol regiment have proved (add to that list Spartans and Surf if they move up). Edited October 11, 2007 by dsb2007 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dsb2007 Posted October 11, 2007 Author Share Posted October 11, 2007 Because they understand that getting on the broadcast is something you EARN through your performance and is not a gift just because you showed up. I would say making the top 2 in Open Class is quite the thing that can only be "EARNED". It certainly is more than just showing up. But continue to deny if you wish. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dsb2007 Posted October 11, 2007 Author Share Posted October 11, 2007 I wasn't just quoting you...others mentioned DCIs "obligation to recruit."And BEFORE any Open Class corps is featured, I believe the World Class corps 13-25 should be included with highlights. Why would those corps, many of whom would score higher than the Open Class corps on the same sheets, not be highlighted while Open Class corps would. That would make no sense that a Madison Scouts would not be highlighted this year but Spartans would be. First, I think Spartans would have been very comparable to Madison this past season...and maybe even beat them had they been in World Class. Second, Madison already has their air time in the Movie theaters. Let the Open Class have something too please! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dsb2007 Posted October 11, 2007 Author Share Posted October 11, 2007 (edited) Because they understand that getting on the broadcast is something you EARN through your performance and is not a gift just because you showed up. You know what is interesting to me, Tom? I flipped through some of your posting history just to try and see if I could pinpoint where some of your negativity on Open Class might come from. You know what I found that interested me? THIS.... Yes, but DCI has already guaranteed housing in Indy and admission to the events for all Open Class corps not advancing. So, you are saying corps will go to Michigan City and then leave for home instead of traveling another 175 miles to Indy for the remainder of finals week? I think not. And besides...Open Class is a developmental division...so what's the harm in having 4-5 corps getting an opportunity to march in Indy? Talk about hypocrisy! You post that...(one more time in case it was missed) Yes, but DCI has already guaranteed housing in Indy and admission to the events for all Open Class corps not advancing. So, you are saying corps will go to Michigan City and then leave for home instead of traveling another 175 miles to Indy for the remainder of finals week? I think not. And besides...Open Class is a developmental division...so what's the harm in having 4-5 corps getting an opportunity to march in Indy? But then you post THIS... Because they understand that getting on the broadcast is something you EARN through your performance and is not a gift just because you showed up. Which way do you really want it, Tom? Do you want people who "earn something" to get rewarded (regardless of WHAT the reward is...air time...one more performance...doesn't matter)...or do you want people to get a "gift" for just showing up? I mean shoot! I'm confused now. Tom, please understand me. I'm not trying to make personal attacks. I just want to know why you are so negative about the Open Class activity all the time and I also want to know why you change your story so much like in the above example. Help me out here man. I just can't seem to figure you out. I'm sure you are a nice guy and all, but you don't make sense and your negativity grates on me because frankly, I love the current activity and am especially excited about the new Open Class idea. But every time I read one of your posts, it's like you are trying to smash my excitement (as well as others). It really does bother me and I know I'm not alone. Edited October 11, 2007 by dsb2007 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Brace Posted October 11, 2007 Share Posted October 11, 2007 Tom, please understand me. I'm not trying to make personal attacks. I just want to know why you are so negative about the Open Class activity all the time and I also want to know why you change your story so much like in the above example. Help me out here man. I just can't seem to figure you out. I'm sure you are a nice guy and all, but you don't make sense and your negativity grates on me because frankly, I love the current activity and am especially excited about the new Open Class idea. But every time I read one of your posts, it's like you are trying to smash my excitement (as well as others). It really does bother me and I know I'm not alone. You are like some cyber stalker....everytime I post anything, you are like on me, huh. I'm starting to feel flattered. No, really...here's the deal. When DCI was just a brainchild of Warren, et. al, they did the work. They put this together...the whole deal and look what it's become. I don't like the attitude of entitlement some people feel. All corps work hard. All corps have great members and give them great experiences. This is not youth soccer. It's not everybody gets a shiny medal and a pat on the head. This is drum corps. It's always been very competitive on the field. People have hated ties in the past because it has been felt that there should only be one true winner. I think the Open Class has a tough road ahead of them. Each year, the corps you keep mentioning...Magic, Capital Regiment, Academy, Jersey Surf, Spartans found that once they were at the top of Div. II, it was time to head up to where the dollar return was. Costs keep getting higher. Every year these top corps go up, someone has to get better in order to truly take place of a Magic, an Academy, etc. Funny thng though, after awhile, there aren't enough new, hot, great corps to take their places in Open Class. It's more likely to see the 3rd or 4th place corps simply to move up a notch or two without really getting all that much better. You see negativity, I see realism. The realism of someone who has been through all of this for awhile. Is Teal Sound a good corps...you bet. So is Revo, Memphis, and the lot. Some are better than some World Class corps even today. But, not better than the corps currently featured in the broadcast. So the question is does Open Class deserve recognition on the ESPN2 broadcast? I'd be a Scrooge to say no, so I won't. I'd even give them a minute rather than a corps director interview which I found rather un-enlightening. But, it's just a name change and the consolidation of two divisions into one. We now have a couple finals week tickets for Open Class in a bunch of ticket holders hands. We'll find out what effect that had about a year from now when they announce the Open Class Finals attendance. I doubt there will be much difference, but hey...surprise me. I think people really need to understand how I operate. People don't react as well when they are comfortable with something. They tend NOT to think as freely as they do when they are uncomfortable. So I push a few buttons here and there to get people to think...to react...to check whether they say something just because it makes them feel good inside or if they really mean it and can back it up with action. See, in most cases, words are worthless without action. There are corps who can tell you that my actions speak loud. I even connected a corps with a possible new director last week. By the way, it was an Open Class corps. So, if what I say pisses you off...I'm ok with that. If I'm wrong, I freely admit it. You pointed some inconsistencies in my viewpoints. NOTED. So what. What's to say I can't feel one way one day and differently the next? I'm not an automatron. If the inconsistencies of my opinions bother you, I'm sorry. Never said any of was perfect. But, my only goal here is cause people to think. It's easy to answer the question....Madison. I did. I'd rather see 30 seconds of Madison even with their show this year...not one of their best. It's much harder for me to say Spartans. I'm not sure seeing them would cause a teenager outside of New Hamphire to go....wow...I need to go march Spartans next year. Hey, maybe I'm all wet. At least one person seems to think so. It's ok. I still sleep at night. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rosski47 Posted October 12, 2007 Share Posted October 12, 2007 An Open Class corps will never make World Class Finals because they are not able to be in Quarterfinals for World Class. If you are not World Class, you can't compete in the World Class Finals.By the way...corps should recruit, it's not DCIs job. DCI is there to build overall awareness and to feature the BEST corps in the activity...not the corps that go on at 4p in the afternoon. That's my entire point! There's no possible way for them to make World Class Finals, so how the hell are they supposed to earn it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Brace Posted October 12, 2007 Share Posted October 12, 2007 That's my entire point!There's no possible way for them to make World Class Finals, so how the hell are they supposed to earn it? So why didn't the current Open Class corps push for one division with the same sheets. It's been suggested here several times. One division, different touring models, minimum number of appearances to qualify for finals. Is that what people want? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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