A Marketing idea for DCI (for open class)

[bobjacobs]

So why didn't the current Open Class corps push for one division with the same sheets. It's been suggested here several times.

One division, different touring models, minimum number of appearances to qualify for finals.

Is that what people want?

We didn't push for it because that's not what we wanted. What we want is to continue to refine the criteria references that allow each of the corps in the Open Class to work toward the achievement of excellence, relative to their respective situations (touring and otherwise) and organizational goals.

Without getting into a lengthy dissertation here about the technical differences in the judging criteria between the divisions, I will say that I have been made to understand that an "all skate" to see who can make it into World Class quarterfinals is not a healthy thing for the corps in the Open Class. At one point early in my directorial career, I bought into the notion that survival of the fittest was the way to go, and our organizational sights were set squarely on becoming a strong competitor. Over the past seven seasons, however, we shifted our focus on the development of our entire organization and providing a great experience for all concerned, and the results have been tremendous.

Thus, although it's kinda cool to see "where things stack up" at the end of the season, it is irrelevant in the bigger scheme of things, in my humble opinion.

If there are additional questions on this subject, I'd be happy to answer them via PM or e-mail.

Thanks!

Bob

Edited October 12, 2007 by bobjacobs

[Tom Brace]

We didn't push for it because that's not what we wanted. What we want is to continue to refine the criteria references that allow each of the corps in the Open Class to work toward the achievement of excellence, relative to their respective situations (touring and otherwise) and organizational goals.

Without getting into a lengthy dissertation here about the technical differences in the judging criteria between the divisions, I will say that I have been made to understand that an "all skate" to see who can make it into World Class quarterfinals is not a healthy thing for the corps in the Open Class. At one point early in my directorial career, I bought into the notion that survival of the fittest was the way to go, and our organizational sights were set squarely on becoming a strong competitor. Over the past seven seasons, however, we shifted our focus on the development of our entire organization and providing a great experience for all concerned, and the results have been tremendous.

Thus, although it's kinda cool to see "where things stack up" at the end of the season, it is irrelevant in the bigger scheme of things, in my humble opinion.

If there are additional questions on this subject, I'd be happy to answer them via PM or e-mail.

Thanks!

Bob

Thank you Mr. Jacobs. It's been a popular topic this off season and what I understand from your post is that you and the Surf organization see World Class and Open Class two different approaches toward providing a drum corps exerience. I have a couple of questions and I will email those to you.

[rosski47]

So why didn't the current Open Class corps push for one division with the same sheets. It's been suggested here several times.

One division, different touring models, minimum number of appearances to qualify for finals.

Is that what people want?

So where did you get that out of my post?

You said they only show the top 12 corps on TV because they earned it, and the others did not.

You used that as an argument against open class being shown on TV.

So how exactly are open class corps supposed to "earn' air time?

Or do they just not deserve it at all because they're not World Class?

[CanadianDirector]

OK, I have to my 2 cents into this........First, when DCI chose to develop A Class (then A and A/60, Div. II & Div. III now Open class) they also took on the responsibility to provide these corps with the equal portion of everything. For the most part, DCI has been good to the Open Class corps, however, perhaps DCI as an organization is shooting itself in the foot. Generally speaking (and I mean in broad terms) most Open Class corps have a limited touring model compared to World Class, more local (perhaps with in several hours drive) and less cross country members then World Class, often less membership fees, tuition, tour costs etc...... SO........the point???????..........Why not show these corps as the alternative to touring all summer, many have a schedule that allow members to attend summer school, work, family commitments. Years ago, and I have the VHS copy for proof, Steve Rondinaro on the PBS broadcast used these points to not only show the differences in the different divisions, but to show the similarities, followed by the highlights (approx 30 seconds) of the first and second place A and A/60 corps. This is how this needs to be approachd, until every single auditionee that auditions for a world class corps mkes it, the public DCI is marketing to (the high school band members and their parents) need to know that there are alternatives to a full touring World Class corps, that provide the same level of intensity, on perhaps a less time demanding schedule. DCI needs to continue to support the growth of the activity, in all reality World Class as it is marketed now even hurts the non finalists, so we all say here that drum corps is going to die, is dead, died years ago.......whatever the story, DCI still sanctions shows that include Open and World Class corps. It is the members of these corps that will go on to be the designers and instructors of tomorrow, so why not increase the potential, show the public that "my 13 yr. old son/daughter can participate in drum corps,because I saw this on ESPN and think that they would be good with their band experience, but I am not prepared to travel my son/daughter around the country for 3 months to audition at 13 only to not make it, BUT.....there is an a division of corps called Open Class and there is one corps within a 5 hour drive, gee that would be a good place for my kid to start, get experience, oh wow keep their part time job, save for college and they still have a great experience, then get in the car kids off we go" Is this not part of the point of the broadcast, to show to the world (well the continental US anyways as ESPN2 is not available in Canada) that there is an activity that is the highest form of marching and playing, that has groups that travel, teach all sorts of skills and life lessons, entertains, have fun, compete and have a huge competition every year, and anyone can become a part of it.

[corpsvalues]

It is the members of these corps that will go on to be the designers and instructors of tomorrow, so why not increase the potential, show the public that "my 13 yr. old son/daughter can participate in drum corps,because I saw this on ESPN and think that they would be good with their band experience, but I am not prepared to travel my son/daughter around the country for 3 months to audition at 13 only to not make it, BUT.....there is an a division of corps called Open Class and there is one corps within a 5 hour drive, gee that would be a good place for my kid to start, get experience, oh wow keep their part time job, save for college and they still have a great experience, then get in the car kids off we go" Is this not part of the point of the broadcast, to show to the world (well the continental US anyways as ESPN2 is not available in Canada) that there is an activity that is the highest form of marching and playing, that has groups that travel, teach all sorts of skills and life lessons, entertains, have fun, compete and have a huge competition every year, and anyone can become a part of it.

Great passion!

Where I disagree with you is that telling this story is not the purpose of the broadcast. The corps need to take responsibility for running and growing their businesses.

[CanadianDirector]

I also agree that it the responsibility of ALL the corps to grow and maintain their business, however, shouldn't DCI and the by use of the telecast also show that there are alternatives to World Class? Give the Open class a few seconds to show it is out there. Not everyone is gong to make the cut for the top corps, take 3 minutes of the entire broadcsat and showcase the remaining World class corps and the open "champions" Let the 'kids back in marching band' who DCI seems to be trying to market to, know that there are drum corps that are a good training ground, have limited touring etc...... To ignore that DCI has more then 1 division is irresponsible of DCI. The corps can use this as another outlet to continue recruiting, fundraising etc..... but DCI needs to provide the outlet forthem to use this. Not the entire telecast but a short segment. Outside of the drum corps circles, it is surprising and scary how many people do not know or understand that Open class (the old II/III) exist and that in essence they are similar or the same as World class just with some differences, in size or budgets, touring schedule etc.......There are more then just senior high school and college students, who are not music majors, that have minimal band programs or none at all (as in Canada) that want to and will participate in drum corps, although a little cliche but all open class corps are drum corps, not all drum corps however are open class. DCI needs to support the activity as a whole. They have taken o the responsibility in seperating divisions, sanctioning contests and declaring a champion, therefore they have the responsibility to help, not do it all, but help the open class corps. Already the Open class corps receive less money, less web space, less recognition, DCI needs to be responsible and step up to allow these groups to help themselves thrive.

Edited October 12, 2007 by CanadianDirector

[corpsvalues]

I also agree that it the responsibility of ALL the corps to grow and maintain their business, however, shouldn't DCI and the by use of the telecast also show that there are alternatives to World Class? ...... To ignore that DCI has more then 1 division is irresponsible of DCI.

I disagree.

I don't want to get into the same old tired arguments again, regarding how the broadcast is the showcase of the top groups. The NCAA doesn't show highlights from it's Division II and Division III football championship games during the national Division I championship game and they don't talk about the AAA affiliates during a World Series matchup. It's all been said before.

Now granted, it might not be a bad thing for a mention of the scope of the entire activity. In my opinion, it's simply not going to be the magic bullet that you think it is.

[dsb2007]

You are like some cyber stalker....everytime I post anything, you are like on me, huh. I'm starting to feel flattered.

Don't be. I'll be very honest with you. I jump on your posts for several reasons.

1. Much of your negativity on Open Class offends me.

2. Much of what you say has no evidence to back up your statements and in many cases is just plain false...yet you try to shove it in other people's faces as though they are wrong. Even though much of the people you argue with are people who are actually CURRENTLY INVOLVED in the Open Class activity and KNOW MUCH MORE THAN YOU DO about what really is going on.

3. You are inconsistent (as shown in the above).

No, really...here's the deal.

When DCI was just a brainchild of Warren, et. al, they did the work. They put this together...the whole deal and look what it's become.

Ok. It's becoming clear now. You are just an old school purist who wants to deny that what the activity HAS "become" JUST MIGHT BE better than it used to be. Got it! You are one of those.

I think the Open Class has a tough road ahead of them. Each year, the corps you keep mentioning...Magic, Capital Regiment, Academy, Jersey Surf, Spartans found that once they were at the top of Div. II, it was time to head up to where the dollar return was. Costs keep getting higher. Every year these top corps go up, someone has to get better in order to truly take place of a Magic, an Academy, etc.

Funny thng though, after awhile, there aren't enough new, hot, great corps to take their places in Open Class. It's more likely to see the 3rd or 4th place corps simply to move up a notch or two without really getting all that much better.

I completely disagree with this! What you are in denial of is that every year when someone moves up...the next Open Class corps who are in line for the top spot step up and develop the exact same quality as the corps that just moved up. IT'S A FACT but you just DON'T WANT TO ADMIT IT!

I'll prove it to you though.

- Magic leaves...Blue Stars step up and makes a strong run to the top 3 of Division 2.

- Blue Stars leave and then places 15th in 2006...making a strong run at finals. Looks pretty clear to me...they were just as strong as the last one that left. Then Academy steps up and wins Division 2 in 2006.

- Academy leaves and then places 15th in 2006...making an even STRONGER run at finals. Looks pretty clear to me...they were just as strong as the last one that left...maybe better since they BEAT the last one that left.

Now, Spartans and Jersey Surf have stepped up to the top 2 of Open Class. I'd say they are just as strong as the last ones that left. Just open your eyes and watch their shows from last year. Full corps, mature look and sound. An easy canidate for Semifinals if they moved up. Will they? Who knows. But if they do, you can bet your last dollar they will contend HARD! And if they do, someone else in Open Class will step up and become just as strong as they were when they left. Teal Sound is already pretty close. It's been the pattern for the lower divisions for years. You would just rather put the blinders on and deny it though. You know why I think you do this? Because I think you are one of those old school purists who want to MAKE yourself believe that the activity of old that you were in was better than it is today. That's called "insecurity".

You see negativity, I see realism.

I already addressed that in another response to you. I can't accept the "I'm being realistic excuse". I HATE it when people use it. It's a cop out...designed to justify your negativity. YOU HAVE BEEN PROVED WRONG ALREADY...so NO! There is NO REALIZM in what you are saying.

The realism of someone who has been through all of this for awhile.

Sorry, I'm not impressed with your "been around awhile" blah. You are NOT in the activity NOW and DON'T KNOW ANYTHING about what's currently going on...as has been proved several times in the last two or three weeks alone.

Maybe it's time you listen more and let what OTHER people say make "YOU think". Especially when some of the people here that you are challenging are actually INVOLVED in today's Open Class activity.

Edited October 12, 2007 by dsb2007

[dsb2007]

OK, I have to my 2 cents into this........First, when DCI chose to develop A Class (then A and A/60, Div. II & Div. III now Open class) they also took on the responsibility to provide these corps with the equal portion of everything. For the most part, DCI has been good to the Open Class corps, however, perhaps DCI as an organization is shooting itself in the foot. Generally speaking (and I mean in broad terms) most Open Class corps have a limited touring model compared to World Class, more local (perhaps with in several hours drive) and less cross country members then World Class, often less membership fees, tuition, tour costs etc...... SO........the point???????..........Why not show these corps as the alternative to touring all summer, many have a schedule that allow members to attend summer school, work, family commitments.

What you are saying makes sense. But touring is really not the difference anymore so I don't know that it would be as strong of a sell marketing it that way. There are World Class who only tour on a regional/partial level. So once kids find that out, we go right back to the drawing board of trying to find a new way to market Open Class.

Years ago, and I have the VHS copy for proof, Steve Rondinaro on the PBS broadcast used these points to not only show the differences in the different divisions, but to show the similarities, followed by the highlights (approx 30 seconds) of the first and second place A and A/60 corps. This is how this needs to be approachd,

Now I agree with that for sure. It's pretty much been my suggestion from the beginning.

Edited October 12, 2007 by dsb2007

[U27athecopa]

Agreed. However, I believe Div II/III (now Open Class) should have had a mention each year behind us as well in order to promote the activity as a whole.

I THINK THE VALUE IS BEING MISSED IN THIS SUGGESTION: Just like you see commercials on TV that say "Buy American" or "Support our Armed Forces" by putting a highlight in the Broadcast that raises awareness of Div II/III the total exposure and, therefore, viability of drum corps is better supported. A larger question is: Do we focus on 12 World Class Corps, or the whole activity? My sister was responsible, in large part, for the launch of the "Blue Card" by AMEX. She explained to me that an organization can take their "heavy hitter" and attach other products to it for exposure. Thus, when AMEX launched the Blue Card they used the good name of the American Express Card to get people to consider the Blue Card. Now, overall, both cards are healthier. Drum Corps can do the same thing - leverage Div I to help bolster Div II/III (now Open). If the base for the activity increases overall (especially if the merging of II/III is productive) then everybody wins. In business survivability people don't argue over "who deserves what?" - they focus on leveraging all available assets for the most total gain. I hate to sound so "utilitarian" about it - but idealism only goes so far in drum corps. It has its place, but "bread and butter" should come first.