RIP, drum corps I knew

[drumno5]

You don't get that reference?

Boy, time flies!

Yeah, I know who Milli Vanilli were. I just thought it was a lame anology.

Peace, friend - no personal disrespect intended

Fred O.

[audiodb]

3. DCI has and will continue (IMO) to trump any outdoor marching circuit when it comes to level of excellence in performance. This is, as far as I have seen, the main attraction.

Well, it will have to be, as that will be DCI's only distinction from marching band - er, the rest of the marching band activity, if the changes proceed to that conclusion.

Historically speaking, though, the attraction was the instrumentation. That's why drum corps has drawn more audience and participant interest than summer marching band over the past 60 years in a multitude of local, regional and national-level situations where the two activities worked in parallel. It wasn't because all the marching bands in each of these summer circuits were bad quality.

[Martybucs]

Yeah, I know who Milli Vanilli were. I just thought it was a lame anology.

Peace, friend - no personal disrespect intended

Fred O.

No offense taken.

"Lame anology" heck, that's part of my stock and trade.

[HoltonH178]

So, because of the rules changes, DCI will see a new interest by HS age kids. Is that what you're saying?

And, this is a recent phenomenon that never happened before? (If so, where did DCI corps get their members before this magical process began?)

And, as many have pointed out, if kids don't really care about the exact rules of the activity, you are assuming that more kids will join DCI corps today and in the future because they are MORE interested in maximizing their marching potential ("Be the best performer you can be in today's DCI!") than kids of the past? You're assuming that today's kids are MORE interested in the DCI touring life than kids of the past were. (What other "hook" is there to get kids to join, if they don't care about instrumentation, or rules, or "technical issues"?)

If we're just limiting the discussion to kids as fans only, it's a given that DCI doesn't want its audience to die off from attrition. Younger fans have to replace older fans that can't come anymore. But, kids don't have much disposable income to spend to keep DCI alive. And, DCI can't afford to wait until they do. That implies a broad-based audience is best. (That is true in other genres: while some movies can generate their producers good income solely by attracting the teens, the most profitable movies do so by appealing to adults too.)

But, what the above assumes for DCI is that what adults do doesn't matter: the health of the activity is based ONLY on how many kids attend shows (and can drag their families along with them). I find that to be short-sighted.

Some (including the above poster maybe?) use recent DCI figures to "prove" that the changes DCI has been making in recent years have not negatively impacted attendance. OK. To believe that assumes that potential fans had been staying away from DCI because the corps didn't offer amps, Bb brass, and/or electronics. Those same proponents also argue that only a few die-hards on DCP care about the exact instrumentation of DCI; casual fans don't.

So, if casual fans don't care about instrumentation, or rules, or "technical issues", how did they decide to stay away because of those very things?

Bottom line: There are some major league assumptions being made by the leading lights of DCI. There is no proof of anything, because the assumptions are contradictory. It has the feel of throwing a lot of mud at a wall and hoping enough sticks. The future is being pinned on the hopes that DCI can continue to attract youngsters at a high enough rate year after year to keep its head above water. And, this process sounds inefficient to me.

When is the process complete? What change is the final change? What is the line that DCI draws, where it says, "Here is where we make our stand"?

In modern drum corps and modern society, the demands absolutely require that your current drum corps member have had significant experience in order to have any interest in participating. I myself came from a top-notch high school, studied horn under graduate TAs at the University of Michigan-Ann Arbor, and played for 8 years before I barely eked my way onto a top 12 brassline at 17. (Yeah, I was a little bit more of a pudge at that time, too, but my point still stands. ) Electronics are one piece of a large puzzle that is designed for DCI to be able to incorporate the successes which competitive marching bands have begun to experience in terms of growth and innovation for the last 5-10 years. Hopefully soon, we can see DCI reclaim the mantle of excellence in design innovation as well as performance in our activity (that is to say, marching music) which has, for a few years now, being been held by WGI and BOA. There are many potentials for the application of amplification that haven't been explored yet, and it's the tradition of DCI to try and seek out these effects in new and exciting ways. People weren't happy when we added the pit, either, but you don't see threads popping up like dandelions about it. One day, it will be the same for amplification and electronics.

Already we have seen more than a few corps incorporate narration, the most loathed implementation of amplification, effectively--Bluecoats and Crown this last year immediately spring to mind. (I personally didn't care for how The Cadets did it. I thought it was decent at best, and awkward at worst.) I'm looking forward to what Kevin Ford, Bob Barfield, and Frank Sullivan, who are all part of the design team for Tarpon Springs HS, will do at Blue Stars in the next couple years; in fact, I'm excited to see what pretty much every design team can do with their new, expansive mediums.

Something that gets lost in these discussions is often the appreciation that each individual is unique. On the forum, we're just one more anon behind a keyboard. Each individual has their own reasons to march DCI, but at bare minimum now, most individuals will have to spend several years intensely studying their instrument if they want to march a DCI World Class Finalist. Your average potential drum corps kid today is a veritable rock star in their HS band, has spent several years already marching, and will probably be looking at a future in music or marching somehow. To be honest, in the face of rapidly rising costs, the "top 12 is all that really matters" mentality, and the activity's own pressure on being the best you can be, drum corps has an obligation to give to their members something that they can take with them after the season is done; and given the demands placed on an individual member to become a part of a significant organization in this activity if they're going to be involved at all, being a part of that organization should include a state-of-the-art education in effect and instrumentation for the many who want to or will go on in the marching arts in some capacity. This is part of why we see kids trying out in gobs for their top-choice corps and not going for Open Class or Quarterfinalists.

We could continue on playing G horns and marching symmetrical drill and wearing the same really now goofy/dated looking outfits we wore, but I have a feeling that wouldn't last that long. I believe that we need to evolve and adapt to the world changing around us and hope to continue to offer our activity for the betterment of our youth and our society.

The point is the difference in cost between keeping a current customer and capturing a new customer.

In the case of TXMystreaux, he (or she) is doing the recruiting. The cost to DCI is nothing. But the net benefit is still limited – zero population growth. And when TXMystreaux leaves, even if it is thirty years from now, the fans he recruits must be otherwise replaced.

As for HoltonH178, you are also talking about replacement, not growth.

A further thought: add to the cost of recruiting a new customer, the cost of losing a customer. When I’m a happy customer, I tell my friends. Maybe they become customers. But if I’m not happy, I’ll not tell my friends. Moreover, maybe, if asked, I’ll tell them why I am no longer a customer.

Why does DCI appear to chase the new fan rather than attempt to keep the old fan? If the strategy succeeds, they should write a new business book.

Here's the thing, though: someone involved in education in the marching arts is going to have a much larger pool of open ears, and someone who is 17 is just as, if not more able to have the same effect as you. Probably even larger, because they are close to the common vein of interest that brings kids to drum crops today. I believe that's probably a lot more valuable than someone who hasn't been actively involved as anything other than an audience member in the last however many years.

[LAMystreaux]

Well, it will have to be, as that will be DCI's only distinction from marching band - er, the rest of the marching band activity, if the changes proceed to that conclusion.

Historically speaking, though, the attraction was the instrumentation. That's why drum corps has drawn more audience and participant interest than summer marching band over the past 60 years in a multitude of local, regional and national-level situations where the two activities worked in parallel. It wasn't because all the marching bands in each of these summer circuits were bad quality.

I am not sure how you can say with confidence that the attraction in the past was instrumentation. What marching band circuit had bands that were performing at the level of the top corps?

[Tom Brace]

If I'm reading this right Tom think we agree (Brrrr ). Feeling I've been getting is DCI has been mainly concentrating on the "getting members" part of the equation. And if there are more fans in the stands it's a happy by product. As there is a constant turnover or members I can understand the worry of a recession or whatever that could cripple the activity in the future. But the way I see it, it's not that DCI is ignoring the "legacy fan", it's just that continuing finding new members is so much more important to them than keeping (or worying about) fans at all.

FYI - my definition of "legacy fan" is anyone that comes back after they age out. Doesn't matter if they are 23, 43, or 62....

Worry about??? I think Dan, Sue and the crew worry about the day when the stands are empty. Some of the directors do as well. I mean someone has to raise the funds to keep this thing going. It's like the age old joke about the music business. It should really be the business of making enough money so you can play music.

But, hey...I don't think anyone came to the table and said..."hey, what do we have in our bag of tricks that will screw over the legacy fan." I just don't think these guys think that way. I believe that the unspoken and somewhat spoken needs of the legacy fans were just simply not taken into consideration. And that's their call. They are in the positions of calling the shots.

You can agree, disagree, put your undies into your crack, whatever, but it's their call. And they will be judged by this decision. Trust me...there will be people who will remember this past weekend....etched into their skulls. It's really a testament to this drum corps activity that folks are so loyal to it.

But, sometimes loyalty breeds contempt. Let me give you a brief example. I had to let a long standing volunteer go from an organization I was heading up. My analysis was that she and her family were driving away other potential volunteers and we needed every volunteer we could muster. You see, this volunteer had lots of passion, conviction and didn't want anything to change.

"The problem with new people is they come up with all these new ideas that will never work." That was the highlight from one of our first conversations. It took me a few months, but before we came to blows I thanked her for her service and asked her to retire as a volunteer. I offered to have a party for her if she wanted, but she was not going to be a volunteer for our organization any longer.

I remember something in line of a threat and only remembered me saying over and over again....and having to get louder..."Thank you, we'll manage." "Thank you, we'll manage."

Well, the long and short of it is that we did manage. And our volunteer base grew. And others who weren't as involved got more active because there were now things to do and no one telling them their new ideas weren't going to work.

There is no moral. Just a story. And now you're all napping quietly.

[The Oz]

Here's the thing, though: someone involved in education in the marching arts is going to have a much larger pool of open ears, and someone who is 17 is just as, if not more able to have the same effect as you. Probably even larger, because they are close to the common vein of interest that brings kids to drum crops today. I believe that's probably a lot more valuable than someone who hasn't been actively involved as anything other than an audience member in the last however many years.

And there is the proof: you are valuing the educator more than me. But there are far more "mes" than educators. I'm feeling disenfranchised.

And I'll even dispute the "much larger pool of open ears". I don't have any friends? Coworkers? And they don't have any children? And weren't my daughters in high school?

Stick to the point – is it good business to lose customers? Can a business succeed while having to continually turn over its customer base?

[Martybucs]

We could continue on playing G horns and marching symmetrical drill and wearing the same really now goofy/dated looking outfits we wore, but I have a feeling that wouldn't last that long. I believe that we need to evolve and adapt to the world changing around us and hope to continue to offer our activity for the betterment of our youth and our society.

My view on this is that it would be neat to be able to have both. I fail to see why DCI has any rules at all anymore, but that's cool. It's what they do. Slowly add more and more.

However, why can't there be a more traditional style of drum corps? I mean I know there would be if people wanted it, but why are some people against it?

What's wrong with having a strict set of rules and limitations that you have to compete within? Again I'm OK with DCI doing there own thing. Those that loved the traditional shows, loved them for what corps were able to do within the strict limitations.

There was no changing the rules because people ran out of ideas. It was about the precision. The precision was the competition and the show was secondary, but also important.

Lot's of competitive activities don't change their rules and they've been around for centuries.

I grew up in a small town, with personal, family circumstances that would be labeled dysfunctional now. My parents grew up in the depression. They had no education and worked until the day they died. We were poor and if you grow up in an alcoholic family you are also well aware of the fact that you are poor. Drum and bugle corps gave me an opportunity to do something. To travel. To learn. Our dues were 25 cents a week and most times wasn't collected. I'm not sure how I would have turned out without drum and bugle corps.

I was a terrible student and unmotivated. I was good at drum corps. It taught me how to focus, how to play an instrument, (one I still play some 44 years later), I learned from those that knew more than me just by watching them and by those that took the time and interest to teach. A friend's family got me involved and helped me every year until I grew up.

There are thousands of varied stories like mine about what old school drum corps was and meant to people. People in a local neighborhood where the drum corps was the only "normal" thing they had. Now, I know this is boring to some and that not everyone got the same importance out of their corps. But I did and I know others that did. I can remember picking up other kids for practice and seeing the way they lived also. Drum corps was all they had.

That's why I miss, (and don't hate DCI), what the small, local, regional circuit drum corps used to be. I feel DCI took that away from the whole country albeit in a benign sort of way.

Edited January 29, 2008 by Martybucs

[HoltonH178]

And there is the proof: you are valuing the educator more than me. But there are far more "mes" than educators. I'm feeling disenfranchised.

And I'll even dispute the "much larger pool of open ears". I don't have any friends? Coworkers? And they don't have any children? And weren't my daughters in high school?

Stick to the point – is it good business to lose customers? Can a business succeed while having to continually turn over its customer base?

As nice as it may be to think about it, a lifetime fan added at 40 is a lot less likely to get hooked than one added at 14. Someone who has experienced marching in some form is far more likely to have an interest in DCI than someone who never has.

When I, or anyone else teaches, they stand in front of anywhere between 30 and 300 potential drum corps members and fans who already have an invested interest in the marching arts. It really doesn't make me cooler/better than you, that's not what I'm implying at all--I'm just a nerd with the job of teaching other nerds, who will probably happen to like DCI. This is also repetitive over generations: the more teachers we have that have marched, the more teachers we will have that have marched 20 years down the road, the more teachers we will have that have marched 40 years down the road, etc. etc. etc. ...I feel it's the best angle from which to pursue the activity in modern society.

[kusankusho]

As nice as it may be to think about it, a lifetime fan added at 40 is a lot less likely to get hooked than one added at 14.

I think you're missing the point. Those of us that are 40, 50, and in my case, beyond. We were still hooked when we were 14. For me it was 12, and that's 41 years ago. I did manage to hook my Dad when he was in his 40's, and he was a fan until he died (at 67 - way too soon). He even volunteered with my old corps.