They're still good, right?

[Tom Brace]

Just one other thing to the marchers of today.

You would've enjoyed drum corps in the 60s and 70s. It might not have been much to look at compared to today, but it was a very powerful experience to march.

We didn't march 160 bpm, but we still blew the stands down with everything we had and the crowds loved it and so did we.

Same as today. That hasn't changed.

Hey Marty...well spoken. Great posts. I truly believe the really important aspects of drum and bugle corps are in the most part behind the scenes and have changed little compared to the ones we tend to focus on.

Drum corps is still about what this "group" can accomplish together by sweat, by picking each other up, bby loading the trucks and busses, by cleaning the school better than when you left it. By learning such self reliance and respect and responsibility at such a perfect age.

Drum corps kids....excuse me CMM, but I'm 25 years past being eligible to march, but these kids...they learn much about what it takes in life to gain success. And for most of them...they don't define success as a ring on their finger 3 months after their season ends. They define it as giving the best performance we can this evening and then giving a better performance the next evening. They live their days to come out at night and blow the audience away.

I would argue to those who are considering leaving that perhaps you are seeking your entertainment and looking at different things than I do when I go to shows. I'm not always happy with some of the "show products." But, it blows me away in an entertainment perspective to watch and appreciate the performers on the field who accomplish what they do.

So, occasionally I'll find a corps who's show I have seen before...who's show frankly I didn't care for. I have to remind myself to change my focus. Focus on the music performance by the brass, focus on what the battery is doing, follow the guard and admire their work. See, for me that's what I love about drum corps...there's always excellence on the field if you look for it.

Granted, sometimes the staff falls short and doesn't give the members a show that connects. I believe we have all seen shows where the members build that connection to the audience through their performance. So, did their staff fail them> In some ways, but if they taught them how to connect with an audience....kind of a PT Barnum skill by the way...then they have provided these kids with an important tool for their lives.

I could go on...but yes...I want to thank the folks who have shared discussions with me over this week. I actually started a poll about whether people would leave DCI or DCP first. Seems stupid right now, but we...all of us are in a better place today than we were a week ago.

I'll make a deal for 2008...this is going to be a shocker. I'll stop the stirring of the pot. I will. If we all can agree not to provide so many pots in need of stirring.

I've felt the honesty and passion in many posts this week and it really is restorative. We are able to have what CNNs former News Director Aaron Brown (who I met last night...way cool) calls an American Conversation about tough topics. Maybe this is the kind of conversations the rest of the country needs to have about the issues important to all of America.

I mean...if we can agree to disagree and do it amicably perhaps the rest of the country can take a lesson.

Thanks everyone!

[silvertrombone]

Besides, I just read Brittany is back in rehab, OH NO!

I honestly think that she likes the attention and will do anything to get more. "Gimmee More," and all that.

I've noticed in the last few days his approach being different than many in the "legacy" group.

Noted. Good point. May more of your peers make the same leap that you have, Marty. Thank you.

1.) I just don't see the argument against any changes or even the future of the activity all that important and certainly not important enough to impinge on a current marcher's opportunity to participate.

2.) I love old style drum and bugle corps. It was wonderful, but totally different that what is today or even the past 30 years.

3.) I personally think the current and proposed changes could completely end the percussion and brass aspect of the drum corps world and forever remove that option for future youth. I've put forth my personal views and objections to all that sort of stuff, but who cares?

4.) I only watched DCI on tv. I thought the tv show sucked, corps good

5.) I want the kids in DCI, all divisions and the marchers in DCA to have as wonderful an experience as I had in my day.

1.) I absolutely agree, and let it be stated for the record that I believe that I was the first to state this, at length, in my little thread about "die and bury it or morph into competitive marching bands." Nice to see that others are coming around!

2.) I've stated that I'm not too into the on-the-field product--just a different generation--but the rest of the activity is pretty much the same. And many of you older guys have stated the part about it being more community/neighborhood in nature, and I would have loved to have had that type of experience, marching in corps with all the great friends that I had in my band and in All-Region stuff. So that aspect of the "old" activity is hands-down great.

3.) I agree that I prefer that the focus be on music and not on some of the other elements that the activity either has focused on as of late, or is headed towards. The idea of some kind of stage show instead of full-field marching, while somewhat intriguing, just is not the same. But I'll be there in the stands as well, and hope to run into you sometime, Marty!

4.) Absolutely agreed. The TV show was for new fans and not Legacy fans, of which I would count myself--whether you guys want to claim me or not!

5.) Absolutely agreed, and once again, I believe that I was the first to make this point.

Hey Marty...well spoken. Great posts. I truly believe the really important aspects of drum and bugle corps are in the most part behind the scenes and have changed little compared to the ones we tend to focus on.

Drum corps is still about what this "group" can accomplish together by sweat, by picking each other up, by loading the trucks and busses, by cleaning the school better than when you left it. By learning such self reliance and respect and responsibility at such a perfect age.

Agreed. Amazing that an old, old guy comes out and says what he says and he is embraced. This semi-old guy said it first and was largely ignored. Oh, well. You're welcome, GH. Didn't start out with the intent of helping your cause, but there you have it!

[Martybucs]

It does come down to, when the camera zeroes in on the members after the last notes of their performance fade and they're standing there, drenched in sweat, out of breath, every ounce of what they had laid out before you - that's me and you - maybe 20, 30, or 40 years ago, but we know what that performer is feeling.

I hope the changes don't change that.

[Cardman]

I'm glad that you can overlook the changes that have occured recently. I will try, but 2008 will most likely be my last year as a patron of this activity. I cringe just at the thought of an amplified horn or electronic synthesizer in a "drum corps" show.....ggghhhaahh!! To each his/her own...

[EndzoneEric]

I'm glad that you can overlook the changes that have occured recently. I will try, but 2008 will most likely be my last year as a patron of this activity. I cringe just at the thought of an amplified horn or electronic synthesizer in a "drum corps" show.....ggghhhaahh!! To each his/her own...

I, too, cringe at the thought of it. BUT... to me, this is about the kids and about the experience that they gain doing this crazy thing we do. So... I'm going to give it a shot. I'm going to go next year, hoping to have my senses overwhelmed by this incredible derivative new art form. If it stinks, I will be disappointed, and I may choose to attend less shows. Something tells me, however, that the creative forces engaged with these corps are going to have some real opportunities to do cool things. Some will probably work well, and others won't due to the performance environment, the need for fast setup and tear-down, the lack of money to REALLY buy the gear that would put this on par with major productions of this scale, etc. Even though I used to march, even though I support several corps and DCI in various ways, I don't presume to be entitled to anything other than having the option of buying a ticket... or not.

This isn't about one director. This is about hundreds of creative and passionate instructors and thousands of dedicated corps members being a part of something bigger than themselves. Who do we think we are to demand that things don't change and don't evolve?

[thirdcoast]

Yes, I'm an old fogey and I loved my G bugle drum and bugle corps. I'd love to see it back again. I know it ain't gonna happen.

To me drum and bugle corps is gone...however, I'm cool with anyone still calling it that. Beats calling it band.

The shows of today contain all sorts of stuff that make me long for the old days, but there's no denying what is put on the field these days in both DCI and DCA and yes, even HS marching bands is pretty cool.

I argue about the definition of drum and bugle corps all the time with MikeD and some others, but I can't deny the fact that the shows are usually pretty cool and although not drum and bugle corps in my book, very entertaining, irregardless of what it's called.

The battle between DCI being the ultimate and DCA being a pale imitation that can't compete, is too boring for words.

Given their own respective environments, they're a treat, if you can get over yourself.

I'd like to go on record here as an old fogey that loves and misses what a drum and bugle corps was, but to also acknowledge that the kids and designers and staff all do a great job at keeping some form of the activity alive.

And it isn't just the "world class" that represents the activity. It's all divisions and everyone that steps on the field to compete and the people that help them do it that sustains some form of the marching activity. Perhaps someday it will all be gone and no band or corps will be doing it. Until then, try to enjoy.

I personally don't want any electronics, amps, woodwinds, vocals, etc. but it's just an activity and not a life and death struggle for musical truth.

I like a good show. You give me one and I'll buy it. Maybe even a t-shirt or cap.

Just some ramblings from an old phart drum corps guy.

That was a cool read, thanks.

Another old fart, in the midwest

[CrunchyTenor]

Marty isn't the only one who still appreciates a good performance, put on by "kids" who have worked together for hours upon hours to give us the best they can possibly give. I don't think there are many here that deny that. It's still a darn good show, it's still an experience like few others, it's still a self-improvement seminar like no other.

I think most, if not all, of us can agree on these general statements about drum corps. Can we make these a given?

The beef is really about equipment, not the people using it. The beef is about people behind the scenes who want to change things too much and way too fast. The beef is in homogenizing drum corps into another similar, but distinctively different, "marching music ensemble."

I had a blast at semifinals. The performances were outstanding. The only thing that would have improved it, and this is my opinion of course, is that they would have been just that much better all acoustic. But that's me. That's really the only purist part of me. Bb brass with 3 valves? OK. Dancing guards? OK. Grounded pit? OK. But give it to me acoustically.

OK, I miss a #4/5/6 bass drum that I can feel as well as hear. These transverse marching tenor drums are too high pitched! But other than that...

Garry in Vegas

[2000Cadet]

Just one other thing to the marchers of today.

You would've enjoyed drum corps in the 60s and 70s. It might not have been much to look at compared to today, but it was a very powerful experience to march.

We didn't march 160 bpm, but we still blew the stands down with everything we had and the crowds loved it and so did we.

Same as today. That hasn't changed.

Honestly I don't think I would have liked it very well back then. I LOVED marching up to 208 bpm. It was a hell of a challenge to march at that speed and play the show all at the same time of trying to maintain a form and make it to different sets. But I don't want to knock the old school, but there is no way for me to try it now. It is what it is.

[Bbwhat?]

Honestly I don't think I would have liked it very well back then. I LOVED marching up to 208 bpm. It was a hell of a challenge to march at that speed and play the show all at the same time of trying to maintain a form and make it to different sets. But I don't want to knock the old school, but there is no way for me to try it now. It is what it is.

Marching those tempos is difficult, indeed. It shows, in some of the lesser corps that attempt it. Not everyone can or should, IMHO, march those tempos. The results speak for themselves. It is rather painful to watch and listen to a corps that simply doesn't have the membership to handle a fast tempo show. Really, only the top 5 or 6 handle it well. There is no pleasure in watching a corps struggle to be something they are not.

That said, the shows of the 1960s-1980+, though limited in fast meter, were no piece of cake either. Needless to say, a fast tempo show is mostly a young person's game and anyone that marched back in the pre DCI period could have also handled the fast meter, had it been available to them at the time.

[PhantomR]

Marty, I don't agree with everything you said, but I must say that the original post was one of the best I've read since being on DCP.

Thanks for being open minded.

~>conner