Getting my Itty-Bitty Corps DCA Legal

[JimF-LowBari]

Explaination: Wondering about this after watching the Minis this weekend and reading/hearing about corps having to prove to DCI/DCA that they (the corps) have legal rights to the music being performed. I understand why DCI/DCA needs to do this but have no idea what is involved. Instead of asking in a boring butted way, thought I'd get creative.

Allllrighty then, my new Itty-Bitty (aka Mini) corps the Nonesuch Arthritic Cadets (sponsored by the Mincemeat Co. of the same name) has gotten the equipment, performers and music ready to hit DCA in 2008 or 2009. Charts are as follows:

Open with rousing Moosavania March (for the ethnic makeup of our home area)

Get funny/funky with "Who Burning Down the Outhouse" (folk song from who knows when) and "Go Wan Home Yer Mudders Calling" (from a 1930s Hollywood movie)

End with stirring "37th Regiment" (WWI patriotic)

You can tell we have a mix of songs, some with no known composer or publishing house.

**** Next is serious part ****

How would a corps go about getting the rights to music and then prove to DCA that the rights were obtained? Can't even guess of the process or the expense so any info would be appreciated.

PS - One of the above song titles is real. As another way to keep this from getting too boring, anyone know which one it is? And any guesses to how I came up with the other three?

Edited April 14, 2008 by JimF-3rdBari

[Martybucs]

Explaination: Wondering about this after watching the Minis this weekend and reading/hearing about corps having to prove to DCI/DCA that they (the corps) have legal rights to the music being performed. I understand why DCI/DCA needs to do this but have no idea what is involved. Instead of asking in a boring butted way, thought I'd get creative.

Allllrighty then, my new Itty-Bitty (aka Mini) corps the Nonesuch Arthritic Cadets (sponsored by the Mincemeat Co. of the same name) has gotten the equipment, performers and music ready to hit DCA in 2008 or 2009. Charts are as follows:

Open with rousing Moosavania March (for the ethnic makeup of our home area)

Get funny/funky with "Who Burning Down the Outhouse" (folk song from who knows when) and "Go Wan Home Yer Mudders Calling" (from a 1930s Hollywood movie)

End with stirring "37th Regiment" (WWI patriotic)

You can tell we have a mix of songs, some with no known composer or publishing house.

**** Next is serious part ****

How would a corps go about getting the rights to music and then prove to DCA that the rights were obtained? Can't even guess of the process or the expense so any info would be appreciated.

PS - One of the above song titles is real. As another way to keep this from getting too boring, anyone know which one it is? And any guesses to how I came up with the other three?

Not being a lawyer, but playing in a couple of bands that do professional performances I have a little bit of an idea about it, but I'm in no way 100% positive on this.

I believe you get a blanket license from ASCAP to perform, (and perform only, not record), any of their covered songs and there are a ton of them. I also believe you would have to do the same with songs covered by BMI and others. The fee is based on how the music is being used. If you're a small user you pay less than a big user.

Therefore, if your songs are ASCAP and you have an ASCAP license to perform them, I think you're covered.

Now recording the performance and selling said recording of a performance is a bit messier, I've been told. You need to get actual permission from the music publisher and perhaps even the artist. Not as easy as a blanket license.

This is only my impression based on what little I've been told. So perhaps DCA accepts just the license as proof of rights to performance.

[TomPeashey]

It's actually quite easy... most corps use an agency in Wisconsin (name escapes me right now, but most directors have it) who take care of everything or you can contact whoever owns the rights yourself... a simple check with ASCAP or BMI will give you all the information you need. Cost can run from free to a few hundred dollars. In rare cases, I have heard of a ticked off publisher holding out for a few thousand and in the rarest of cases - refusing permission. (forget doing John Williams stuff for instance) This is why it's always a good idea to do this as soon as you are ready to arrange the tune.

I have heard of a few rare instances where an entire tune had to be changed close to the season when permission was refused... this is rare... for the most part, it's a simple procedure with little or no problems.

The reasons for doing this are the same reason we pay taxes... it's simply the law... I guess artists have a right to be compensated when their work is used. As governing bodies involved in media sales of the products, there is NO choice other than to be in full compliance. To do less would put the entire segment of the activity at risk.

[HornsUp]

There are several types of rights associated with a copyrighted work. These are administered in various ways.

The performance rights which Marty alludes to are the responsibility of the venue. The performing organization does not obtain these. They are generally obtained through a blanket license with the major performing rights organizations - ASCAP, BMI, and SESAC.

Recording rights must be obtained by whoever is marketing the product. After the first recording has been made of a copyrighted work, anyone else may record it by paying a per-song-per-copy fee through the Harry Fox Agency.

Field corps and minicorps are required by DCA and DCI to obtain permission to arrange copyrighted material (basically, anything created since 1923). This is what Peash is writing about. The usual fee is $150 per tune, and this is only for the prescribed use. You sign over all other rights to "your" arrangement to the publisher. The ASCAP and BMI websites have search engines where you might locate the publisher of your material, or you can pay a premium to an agency such as Copy Cat to do this legwork for you. Tom is correct - permission to arrange is not universally granted, it is the prerogative of the copyright holder.

There are also other rights that are beyond the scope of the OP's question.

[gmanbay41]

It's actually quite easy... most corps use an agency in Wisconsin (name escapes me right now, but most directors have it) who take care of everything or you can contact whoever owns the rights yourself... a simple check with ASCAP or BMI will give you all the information you need. Cost can run from free to a few hundred dollars. In rare cases, I have heard of a ticked off publisher holding out for a few thousand and in the rarest of cases - refusing permission. (forget doing John Williams stuff for instance) This is why it's always a good idea to do this as soon as you are ready to arrange the tune.

I have heard of a few rare instances where an entire tune had to be changed close to the season when permission was refused... this is rare... for the most part, it's a simple procedure with little or no problems.

The reasons for doing this are the same reason we pay taxes... it's simply the law... I guess artists have a right to be compensated when their work is used. As governing bodies involved in media sales of the products, there is NO choice other than to be in full compliance. To do less would put the entire segment of the activity at risk.

The agency is CopyKat Music. They do all the work. All you need to provide them with is the list of songs and by who.

If it's public domain then its no charge to use it. If not then its between $100-$275 a tune. They send you an agreement form and off you go.

George

[JimF-LowBari]

The agency is CopyKat Music. They do all the work. All you need to provide them with is the list of songs and by who.

If it's public domain then its no charge to use it. If not then its between $100-$275 a tune. They send you an agreement form and off you go.

George

And I take it CopyKat will tell you if a song is public domain? This all sounds easier and cheaper than what I heard DCI requires. Then again maybe I heard wrong.

Thanks all for the info, expected this to be all silly when I saw there were responses. Instead I have something to start on. Being a good Computer Specialist (my job title - whatever the Hades Comp Spec means) just want to get my *stuff* together just in case it's needed in the future.

And since no one picked up on the silly part. "Go On Home Yer Mudders Calling" is the real song from an old Jimmy Durante movie. For some unknown reason my grandfather had it on a 78rpm that I found when we cleaned out his stuff. Typical Durante fest of mangled English and bad jokes. And Rocky & Bullwinkle fans should pick up on Moosavania(sp?).

Edit: Just entered www.copykat.com by either stupidity or lack of coffee. Anyone want any recipies? Looks like the website is www.copycatlicensing.com.

Edited April 15, 2008 by JimF-3rdBari

[CorpsBuff]

Ask Lee, he'd probably know.

[G-horns]

Permission to arrange is different than permission to perform. And you really need to have both, since you really can't use a published band arrangement for drum corps. (Well, you could, but you'd be doing alot of transposing and covering of parts.)

One difficulty if you go the direct route, rather than using a service, is that a fair number of publishers have been bought by other publishing houses over the years. So you might find yourself looking for the original publisher and end up having to go to a different outfit to complete the deal. Also, you may find that one publisher handles the print rights, a second deals with the mechanical rights (recording), and a third takes care of performance rights. And then there's that public domain issue, where the original work is PD but the published version you happen to have in your hot little hand is copyrighted.

Of course, if you don't plan to do DCI/DCA shows and you just do parades, you might be inclined to avoid the whole mess. But that isn't fair to the person or persons who invested their time to create the original material and if you DO get caught it could put the corps out of business in a heartbeat.

[Gary Matczak]

Permission to arrange is different than permission to perform. And you really need to have both, since you really can't use a published band arrangement for drum corps. (Well, you could, but you'd be doing alot of transposing and covering of parts.)

agreed,...........but if you make any changes, that requires obtaining permissions,........ plus if you claim you have rights by using stock arrangements, you are higher up on the list to pursue should any scrutiny occur.

One difficulty if you go the direct route, rather than using a service, is that a fair number of publishers have been bought by other publishing houses over the years. So you might find yourself looking for the original publisher and end up having to go to a different outfit to complete the deal. Also, you may find that one publisher handles the print rights, a second deals with the mechanical rights (recording), and a third takes care of performance rights. And then there's that public domain issue, where the original work is PD but the published version you happen to have in your hot little hand is copyrighted.

agreed,....................but if you want to save some money, and can follow the worm hole, anyone can do it.

Of course, if you don't plan to do DCI/DCA shows and you just do parades, you might be inclined to avoid the whole mess. But that isn't fair to the person or persons who invested their time to create the original material and if you DO get caught it could put the corps out of business in a heartbeat.

agreed,....................publishing houses have real aggressive lawyers just waiting to be turned loose,.............really!

Edited April 15, 2008 by Gary Matczak

[jeff danchik]

At this time of the year you can still do it yourself and go through Hal Leonard. CopyCat though is an established company and first time users may want the safety of a professional. Jenny's group is experienced with the Marching community doing DCI,BOA and DCA. If by some chance a mistake is made, her relationship with the music houses comes in handy.