Pitch Modulation in DCI Competition

[cowtown]

Frankly, I don’t understand Pags post at all on several levels, whatever, Pags is not the issue or the topic.

I’m still of the mind that you input a note and it comes out 3 octaves lower as a different note that you are using electronic instrument. It’s really pretty simple. I still think the rules were broken.

I wouldn’t be surprised at all if corps this year use similar or other effects without penalty. I kind of expect it. And really that is no vindication or proof that I was wrong, just proof that DCI lacks consistency, integrity and the ability to abide by their own contract with the public and corps; or to abide by their own rules. That will be far more damaging to DCI in he long term than had they dealt with this issue promptly and effectively.

I feel taht anyone that bought a ticket or any one that marched in a DCI last year has been cheated.

(I wonder if class action would get some answers....hmmmm)

it may be unfair to speculate but that’s all I’m left with due to the lack of information provided by DCI

Anyone read the news about the NBA ref’s lately, anyone see the polls on how the fans view it or how the NBA is trying to deal with it? The NBA knows it’s fighting for its life right now because the integrity of the spot has been called in question. They’re not saying we won’t address the issue because it was brought forth in a hostile nature. They’re not saying it was an innovating job of officiating that pushed the envelop and they’re surely not saying amplification is modulation. Nope, they are taking it head on, promptly and quickly because they get it. Of course they might get burned later because of what they are saying now and the potential congressional hearings unearthing contrary evidence but that’s not the point, the point is there are addressing the issue promptly.

I don’t know, it’s been a goofy few years, maybe spin and manipulation of information is more important than integrity and truth. Maybe that’s what we should be teaching our kids in drum corps. Maybe our culture is one that prefers to be misled and remain blissful in their ignorance because the truth is inconvenient.

[pags]

Cowtown,

I understand where you're coming from in general by comparing the perception of the DCI situation to the perception of the NBA situation. However, I feel that there are some distinct differences that have to be taken into account. The NBA's issue is over the integrity and honesty of it officials based on the allegation that they are working together with the executives of the NBA to produce a certain result. DCI's situation is about the extent of the knowledge, training, and enforcement surrounding its rules.

As an example, a comparable analogy for DCI versus what's going on with the NBA would be if judges were being accused of "fixing" who the champion was such that all they have to do is make sure they avoid making other corps' scores too high to guarantee that a certain corps wins. Now, I will admit that such allegations have been levied against DCI judges (i.e. "Oh, it was so-and-so's home show, so the judges let them win for their family"...or, "Chamionships are being held in the Midwest, so (Corps X) has an advantage..") but it at least appears that in general the fan base trusts the judges to effectively adjudicate the shows.

On the flip side, for the NBA as a comparison to what the present issue is with DCI, this would be akin to a question being raised by fans over whether the referees are effectively enforcing the rule of the "Coaches box" (i.e. the defined area that coaches are supposed to stay in during the game, but which no one does)

[cowtown]

umm, yeah, no...

let me clear up my post a bit for you by editing some of the fluff

The NBA knows it’s fighting for its life right now because the integrity of the spot has been called in question. the point is there are addressing the issue promptly.

[cowtown]

and of course there = they

I didn't want to eidt my own quote becuase of that integrity thing, see it’s more than just an abstract for some of us out-of touch dinosaurs

[pags]

and of course there = they

I didn't want to eidt my own quote becuase of that integrity thing, see it’s more than just an abstract for some of us out-of touch dinosaurs

Again, I feel that I understand where you're coming from, but I also feel that a distinction is necessary because the two situations are, at best, only generally alike. The integrity of the NBA is at issue based on the blunt concept of the referees' impact on the game due to their mere presence potentially being outright fraudulent. The issue for DCI judging is one of the nuances in how they choose to interpret, traing for, and enforce a rule or given set of rules.

The issues of are VERY different, with the only real connection being the generalized concept of questioning those who are charged with the responsibility of maintaining their given organization's rules during one of its contests. Both are issues of integrity on some level, but integrity in VERY different aspects of their respective activities and thus not truly comparable in my mind.

I should also add that I'm not completely sure how to take the comment about integrity..is it tongue-in-cheek, a joke, dead-serious?

Edited June 13, 2008 by pags

[audiodb]

As for the content of the communication, I have been (and will be) choosing to stay mum on the subject out of respect for the people I communicated with. They have a certain philosophy to their approach concerning such conflicts as what were created in that thread, and I am choosing to honor that by not blabbing.

A shame. But then again....

Believe me, I wish I "could" discuss the content of the communication, but I also feel that even though I view the response I received as an adequate and acceptable answer, there are plenty of others who won't and I would frankly like to avoid having to defend the content of what was passed along to me privately.

I was hoping that if there was an answer that would satisfy all the non-trolls in this discussion, someone would have shared it with us by now. The fact that we still don't have such an answer after a thousand posts suggests that whatever "the answer" is, it probably isn't going to be satisfactory to the majority of us.

I'll take one more crack at this, though. I understand that part of the contentious nature of this topic is the thought of disputing past contest results. As that is not my interest in this, I would like to put that aside and focus on what the policy is to be regarding pitch modulation in the future. I'll gladly stipulate that this thread be moderated to stay on only that topic (it is my thread, after all) if that will permit you to share that insight. Would that work?

I don't want to see this matter continue to draw speculation if, in fact, it has been addressed.

[LandoC]

[cowtown]

' I would like to put that aside and focus on what the policy is to be regarding pitch modulation in the future'

I don’t think any of us here that are willing to answer can answer that with any authority

My guess is that it will be a go for this year because they won't want to look badly from last year...really, say a corps tries it this season, do you think DCI will call them on it? And how will that corps then react...'but Blue Devils did it' and DCI will say.........? The precedent has been set due to lack of action or clarity it will be de-facto legal. At this point, it'd cause a bigger stir if DCI said no, you can't use it then if they just allowed it, also if they allow it, it will imply we were all just a bunch of freaks hating on DCI. I'd love to see a corps force the issue and try it this year regardless

and next year, well then it will be legal depending how they define electronic instruments. If I worked for a corps, I’d want everything spelt out about the new 2009 rules before this year was over…but I doubt that will happen, my gut tells me this is just the beginning of the confusion and it will only get worse

In a few weeks, when the shows starts and I start seeing people, I’ll get my answer if there is an answer, they may be as confused and baffled as I am

[Scerpella]

I would like to see a corps do Emerson Lake and palmers "Lucky Man" complete with swooping and bending synthesizer solo to see how tolerant of pitch modulation DCI is.

' I would like to put that aside and focus on what the policy is to be regarding pitch modulation in the future'

I don’t think any of us here that are willing to answer can answer that with any authority

My guess is that it will be a go for this year because they won't want to look badly from last year...really, say a corps tries it this season, do you think DCI will call them on it? And how will that corps then react...'but Blue Devils did it' and DCI will say.........? The precedent has been set due to lack of action or clarity it will be de-facto legal. At this point, it'd cause a bigger stir if DCI said no, you can't use it then if they just allowed it, also if they allow it, it will imply we were all just a bunch of freaks hating on DCI. I'd love to see a corps force the issue and try it this year regardless

and next year, well then it will be legal depending how they define electronic instruments. If I worked for a corps, I’d want everything spelt out about the new 2009 rules before this year was over…but I doubt that will happen, my gut tells me this is just the beginning of the confusion and it will only get worse

In a few weeks, when the shows starts and I start seeing people, I’ll get my answer if there is an answer, they may be as confused and baffled as I am

[Dale Bari]

Dale, please go back to my posted response on this thread and find me the section where I state that anyone else had been Inquisitorial. [snip] Essentially, an issue was raised and resolved.

Thank you for your passionate, yet balanced response.

As for "what you're going to do with me" let's hope it is actually nothing, as my wife might have something to say about that!

In the heat of argumentation, sometimes positions get hardened a little too much for anyone's good.

I sincerely doubt that this situation will be explained to everyone's satisfaction in an expeditious manner. But, I hope that DCI and the corps use it as a lesson learned for the future because they have chosen to travel to a distant destination through uncharted waters strewn with more hazards like the one we've been dissecting.

Again, thanks for your explanation.