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Since we're "dreaming" here... Dallas San Francisco Philadelphia Nashville

Now THAT is perhaps the thing that makes me the happiest.

The only thing I can offer to this discussion is the thought (which I will not posture as "fact," but just something to consider based on my own perspective) that the brilliance and curse of great design and superior performance is that it makes what is very difficult appear very easy, lending itself to perspective from others that the design and demand are cutting corners. It represents a different philosophy in auditory and visual presentation, but I don't see evidence it is inherently more or less difficult than the design/demand that came before it. This is true for any/all corps, not just the Blue Devils. I think there is far more coordination and integration (vs. segmentation) than we often give credit for in these spread out "pods." The original poster didn't really address this element, but it is worth noting the impact of increased prop usage. When you utilize props, particularly large ones, it necessarily impacts how you design your movement of personnel. One person's "effective placement" is another's "clutter," so I won't even begin to try to convince anyone which way they should interpret it, but it is an element that impacts visual presentation nonetheless, and if you are looking for an area where a potential "solution" (assuming you identify what is currently going on as a "problem") exists, then the number and/or size and/or amount of movement of props could be starting places visually in terms of how the "corps proper" utilizes the full field for formations and transition drill. As to the "drill v. body movement difficulty" debate, the only analogy I can offer is that it is very difficult to run a sprint; it is also very difficult to hold a plank position. Borth tax you and are difficult, but in different ways, especially when you add in a simultaneous demand of another activity (i.e. performance). Judges (in the recordings I used to hear) typically referred to this as a difference in performance demand and environmental demand. I don't want to go down too many rabbit holes, but I feel compelled to at least mention that the OP could have used a better example than 2009 Blue Devils for the breakdown of musical presentation/demand changes. Yes, there are some soloist and small ensemble moments used in that show, but for the most part it was NOT carried by soloists. You would have had a far better argument with 2004 BD as an example for critique. Further, even if what was written was true of the 2009 production, I find it disingenuous to use one show from one year as representative of what is happening to the activity as a whole, particularly since the way BD designed and performed that show from a musical standpoint was very different than 2010, 2011, 2012, etc. If our tastes cannot allow for variety in musical presentation then I feel the problem is with us as reviewers and not the activity or corps as a presenter. I have other thoughts, but also a job that I must return to...

As a quick tag-on to this, I have to ask....how disappointed do you think you (or other people) would be in the event the Blue Devils don't do anything else with the window/ending? (To be clear, I haven't heard any rumors one way or the other; this is purely a theoretcial question.) I can't help but notice from the tone and vocabulary used in posts this year regarding BD that part of the credit people are giving Blue Devils is preemptive and has to do with anticipation of them doing something more with the ending (i.e. they've "allowed" for what they feel is a placeholder ending all season because they expect something to come of it.), so if they do nothing, what is your take on the show? Does it change the minds of anyone who has called it their favorite BD show of the last x years? I'll offer a response to my own question just so people don't think I'm trolling; For me it changes little. An empty window might need a little more personal interpretation as to why it's there in light of the fact that they make such a demonstrative effort to place it where it is at that moment of the show, but it's also a few seconds out of an otherwise stellar show. Had the window been placed center-field the entirety of the show and they end up doing nothing with it, it's a problem in a show that's about change. Baiscally, my experience of the Blue Devils show will not be "incomplete" or disappointing if they do nothing more with the window/ending, but I am curious if others feel the same considering the notable buildup in anticipation over the last few weeks.

2009 SCV

1997 Blue Devils 2004 Blue Devils (Finals, specifically)

I am still betting on a BDC snare member in 70's uniform, playing the cadence of Legend of the One-Eyed Sailor. It brings them full circle on the current show from a musical standpoint and visually with their history, and it is an ending type (i.e. snare playing last notes of the show) they've used before (2003 show), linking them yet again to one of the championship shows of the past. But maybe I'm way overthinking this...

...except the Blue Devils for a third of the show. Sorry, sorry, with all the commentary I HAD to; it was just too easy. In all seriousness this year's show is just such a superior contemporary homage than the 2007 show. I've been loving it all year.

Okay, I'm going to throw this out there and then retreat back into my Anonymity Corner for awhile.... It's an observation/suggestion for those disagree with the whole G8 concept: I'm not asking you to like the concept, but can you please at least find a way to give it a chance? Let's be honest, DCI needs this to go well. I liken this very much to a Presidential election; you may not agree with the point of view of the guy who got in on several issues, but for the sake of the country you need to hope he does well while he's there because a lack of any kind of success is only bad for the country. I'll throw this out there as a specific example: I'm not an Obama-supporter, but if the guy is going to get his way, then I need to hope that he's right and I'm wrong about what's best for the country because if he gets his way and he's wrong, it's not good for any of us. I'd be thumbing my nose at him from the unemployment line, which wouldn't be anything to take pride in. Same thing applies to DCI and the G8. Many disagree with it, quite a few outright hate it, but for the sake of DCI as a whole we need to hope it does what they advertise it as: an opportunity to open up this activity to new fans, increase the exposure in new ways to existing ones, create interest in more shows, eventually motivate more kids to tryout, and overall increase the brand (and especially the revenue) of DCI so that it maintains viability in a world that is increasingly disinterested in a fine arts-based activity. Do I hope that eventually this activity has built itself to a competitive point where the G8 can be an ever-changing list of corps? Abso-freaking-lutely. How cool would that be if 5 years from now we're writing about how exciting it would be for Blue Devils and Crossmen to be going head-to-head, or Cascades against the Colts. But let's be honest at this point about who casual fans want to see most. If I'm a casual basketball fan and the NBA is going to initiate a new kind of in-season exhibition, I want to see the Lakers, Celtics, Heat, and Thunder pioneer that sucker, because if it is something the perceived "elite" can't pull off effectively, then it's a decent guess the Clippers and Nets don't stand a chance. Would I hope as an ardent basketball fan it would grow into something of equal interest no matter who is involved? Of course, but to start it needs the involvement of the teams with the most recognizable brands and best resources to make it work. Just look at the trouble the NFL has when sending the Bills and 49ers to London for an international match-up. This was longer than intended, but I'm just saying give it a chance. Not "drink the Koolaid" and say this is the greatest things ever, but at least try to recognize that we need this to do well for the sake of DCI so that this activity develops and survives. This concept has already helped generate more shows and a longer schedule, both good things considering some of the criticisms on this very board the last few years.

Based purely on the FN viewing, my favorite part is the drum feature about 3/4 of the way through. To me, it's their most enjoyable feature (in terms of combination of beefiness and musicality to the book) since the features from the 2001 show. I'm going to do my best to remain positive about the show, as requested by the OP. Love the volume. The new brass is a lot better and only leads to the question of why did they not do this sooner? Love the pseudo-tire tread drill near the end of the show (a la the 2001 show). Already mentioned the drum line. Pure awesomeness. I understand that the show is based on abstract jazz as it is, so asking for a show to be filled in its entirety with cohesive, melodic phrases is counter to the show idea. However, I think that a number of the critics are missing the amount of cohesion that is already there. The development is dissonant to be sure, but that doesn't mean it's not there. If I could have just one request (because I'm sure BD's staff is pouring through comments looking for MY preferences) it would be that the closer incorporate more of La Suerte. I honestly feel that a lot of the negativity diminishes (if not goes away) if the closer was the part they create the most cohesion in the musical ideas. They DO spend a lot of time on dissonant chords that feel like transitionary dissonance rather than the main body of the music. I mean, who doesn't want to hear a fuller version of La Suerte??? Beyond THAT, though, I get what they're doing and am now VERY happy I subscribed to get the Blu-Ray DVD set when it comes out.

I'll go with 1995 BD as my top choice. I still listen to that one far more than Cavaliers or Cadets 1995, not that either one of those is "bad" by any means.

I don't think they have a problem with your opinions as long as you label them YOUR opinions. The earlier post made a large generalization, imposing a certain opinion on the crowd as a whole. THAT is where they have the problem. I am quite sure that there were people in attendance who felt what was described in the earlier post, but there were also a ton of Cavaliers fans who felt the Machine show was/is THE prototypical Cavaliers show for the 2000's and cheered accordingly. I know that there were a lot of people on this board who commented in 2006 that they didn't feel Phantom 06 was title-worthy but they were just happy that it beat Blue Devils, leaving The Cavaliers completely out of their reasoning. Basically, the opinion that the crowd was "tired" of what The Cavaliers were doing is false simply becase there are too many opinions that factored in that night.

It's not worth getting worked up over until we start hearing camp reports and/or recordings and video to hear how the quality is changing. As for me, I think these are high-quality signings, but I'm not expecting immediate impact. If it happens, great for Madison, but I'm not going to force unfair (and possibly unrealistic) hopes and expectation for what they should play and how they should look and sound in THE FIRST YEAR of involvement of these new staff members. Give them time to put their stamp on Madison and don't read too much into the first year. Remember that Madison missed Finals in 2002 and bounced back with a good show up to 8th place in 2003 and everyone thought Madison was back for good. Here we are 6 years later re-discussing our hopes for them getting back to Finals. A single year's result can just as easily be an indicator as an anomaly; these individuals have established themselves because they understand how to develop members and performers over time.

I'm guessing he's just looking for a general "how you got access to what you saw" to help establish credibility/validity of what you described. In other words, would you happen to be part of the DVD production group, a quality-assurance expert who was given a copy for feedback, etc.?

I know that it rained 2005 in Boston. I was in the audience and had to leave my seat for awhile.

To support this... Take a look at weather reports for Bloomington, IN for August 11, 2007 (when Finals were occuring in Pasadena). 93 degree high temp and an average of 67% humidity. Look at this year as well...88 degree high and 71% average humidity. Not as bad as 2007 but not as good as 2008 either.

So far I bought 8: Blue Devils, Carolina Crown, SCV, HNC, Bluecoats, BK, PR, Blue Stars. At first listen I did not like them, but they have grown on me a lot since then. I think there is some imbalance between the pit and brass, almost like the sound technicians were using directional microphones to pick up sound in key areas rather than a broad-based sound that would have blended the various sounds better, but the imbalance is NOT horrendous, like some would want you to believe. Carolina Crown and SCV sound wonderful. Cadets' brass sounded like they were playing at a different stadium for parts of their show (they just sounded far away).

The ones where the issue occured the most to me were Blue Devils (the lower synth buildup to the drum feature, for instance) and Bluecoats, but also sections of HNC (the jazz piano portion of Cool) and Carolina Crown.

I felt it was used well by corps like SCV, BD, CC, and HNC. I felt it was used badly by Spirit (and possibly a few others that aren't coming as immediately to mind). That seems about par. To me, it's no different than brass, percussion, and colorguard or any other element of drum corps...some will use the resources available to them very effectively, others will not. It doesn't make those resources inherently good or bad. On a somewhat related note, I find it ironic that on the Q-finals APD's the element you hear LEAST is the synths. You hear some over-amping of the pit at times (again, depending on the corps) but whenever ANY corps (in my listenings) went to a section where it was solely supposed to be the syth you can't hear squat. This is very likely because the syths feed directly into the speakers rather than having a sound unto themselves so tha synth sound comes out of the sides of the pit rather than down the middle (where the microphones were) and thus the sound doesn't get picked up effectively. Again, ironic...

IF it is true then it has strong potential. The only caution I would throw out there (before it gains any traction) is to take heed of what happened with Phantom this past year. Coming off a banner year they select The Red Violin and phans across the board praised the selection as "epic Phantom Regiment" and "no one else could do it better" etc. We witnessed the result..9th place. My point? There is more to making the show "epic" than just selecting good music. Star's 1990 show has become epic because it excelled in balancing visual and musical content and execution (coupled with the fact that they are no longer a part of DCI so many of their shows have taken on a mythic quality). Phantom struggled to find that balance this past year after nailing it the year before and came up with a show this year that few would call "epic" in the anals of Regiment lore and especially in comparison to 2008. So all I'm saying is IF this true recognize the potential of the show and look forward to possibilities but just be wary of those who might talk about an "epic" show coming.

IF this true, how bad is it, really? I mean, ultimately what DCI wants is for each of its corps to be able to support a full staff and membership that can do a national tour. Is that a bad missions to have? Wouldn't it kind of be great to have no Open class specifically because they've all grown so large, well-managed, and fiscally sound that they've all moved on to World Class? That takes a membership of 22 World Class corps and increases it to 40+. think of it this way. If the activity as a whole is doing well enough that all the current Open class corps (save the deliberately designated cadet/B corps like BDB and SCVC) are able to move up into World Class, you'd also have to believe that would mean that opportunities would then be opening or re-openining in places that have been non-existent or dormant, thus revitalizing Open class as they build in new areas. Besides, it's not like DCI has given some kind of ultimatum saying you have to be World Class in the next 2 years or we won't support you, but I see no problem with them promoting the idea amongst themselves that eventually they want all the corps to have full staffs, 150 members, and a national tour if it can be wisely managed and fiscally supported. It would help increase the fanbase if nothing else from the parents of the participants but also from those corps being more prominent in their hometowns and generating a following, it would mean fewer shows of "only" 4-5 corps, possibly an increase in the number of shows as a whole, it would create a Quarterfinals of greater interest since we'd then be asking which HALF (or more) of the corps are not going to make Semi's, etc.

Man, now THAT sounds like a challenge...one I do not have nearly enough time to meet... Slightly on subject, yeah, it's amazing that they were so close to a three-peat. Though, one correction..because last year tie-breakers would have been in effect they wouldn't necessarily have been guaranteed a title had they scored .025 more than they did. They would have needed 0.050 more to make it "undeniably" theirs. Regardless of where you stand on the "who should have won" front from last year, you gotta admit that Finals day 2008 was pretty a darn tough one for the entire BD organization. First BDB loses by 0.050, then BDA loses by 0.025. Seventy-five thousandths!! between TWO corps!! Yeah, some people overreacted but you can kind of understand why. Switch the roles and think of it along the lines of if Phantom had won Quarterfinals and Semifinals only to lose to BD by 0.025 at Finals, the conspiracy theorists would NEVER have settled down and all the Phans out there would have been screaming bloody murder talking about DCI robbing them of their first sole championship, etc., so keep it in perspective. ANYONE from the fanbase of ANY corps would have reacted the same way had it been their corps. It's the smallest possible margin you can lose or win by, so it is automatically going to strike a nerve.

I'm not going to rush to an over-generalized judgment here. I have recordings from 1981 and 1982, the years they were in Montreal. You can definitely hear a difference in the years. Ad I understand it, they moved the field back 5 or 10 yards to help diminish or eliminate any reverb. It helped a lot in the quality of the recordings. I can't speak to the quality of the live shows since I wasn't even 2 years old at the time and wouldn't know of DCI for another 15 years. What am I trying to say? It's possible that they can find a joint solution along with Lucas Oil managers to make the sound more "drum corpsish". This was their first real opportunity to record shows in this venue, so some hiccups are to be expected. However, this DOES open them up for criticism in the idea of signing a long-term deal before ever having a show there. Championships shouldn't be the time that sound-experimentation is going on. I went ahead and downloaded 8 apd's from q-finals and I'll admit that I'm not thrilled with them for the first time since they started offering them. The inner chamber creates a vacuum effect for the sound. There are multiple times where I cannot hear the brass, percussion, or pit properly (yes even the "overamped" pit disappears at points). I sincerely hope they edit well for the Finals CD's. This is exactly where at least having a Regional there would have proven beneficial so that they could prepare appropriately. Someone else has suggested or rumored that there is an "out clause" in the contract if DCI is not pleased with the sound they got. I highly doubt this. I'm not saying it's impossible, but it's not likely either. Having dealt with long-term contracts it would be foolish to sign a 10-year deal with an out after 1 year. Lucas Oil folks would want the opportunity to do it again at least one more year to see if they can find the right formula for sound and keep DCI long-term. If, indeed, there is a one-and-done out clause that is at DCI's discretion, then the negotiator for Lucas Oil is an idiot.

Now, maybe it's just me, but I thought this thread was titled the top 10 things we think but dare not say....I haven't sen one item on here that hasn't been rehashed ad nauseum for the duration of this summer (and in some cases, the summer before that). Is there anything NEW???

This is the best general response, I feel, at least with regard to the fans. When what The Cavaliers were doing was new and exciting and mind-blowing they had a much larger rabid fanbase. They were the darlings of DCI. Fast forward a few years when what they're doing now is the norm, or the base standard, it becomes harder to wow people. Thus, they have fans that still tremendously respect the corps and want them to do well, but just aren't as rabid about it and aren't as enthralled with the product year in and year out. Programming tastes go in phases, and DCI seems to be entering a phase that is a hybrid of past phases, which makes it harder to nail down the right combination of things to do to win it all.