hornlines 08

[chaos001]

There was a marked difference in sound output between PR and Crown and the four other WC corps at Stillwater and Mankato (Madison, Blue Stars, Colts and Blue Knights). However, PR has the edge by a noticeable margin over even Crown.

And let me also say: Regiment is definitely in the hunt for the brass trophy this year. Not only can they put the sound out, but it's a good sound as well.

And if you haven't heard their mello soloist, he's incredible.

they do seem louder this year. which is a good thing in my book.

is Parker the soloist this year? anyone know?

[2000Cadet]

Well I know that the majority of the time, The Cadets have been one corps that has consistently tried to put out loud and great quality hornlines. I don't know much about the other corps because I haven't really been around them other than hearing them at shows. So I won't comment on them. As much as I agree with most of what Presque Isle Brass has said, I can't say that everything said was entirely fair. I mean it is a lot easier to put out a quality sound when you are sitting in a chair performing. But I know it is hard to focus entirely on quality of sound when your marching at 208 bpm etc. I am most definitely not making an excuse for not focusing on sound quality, but in drum corps, there are more factors involved while trying to produce a quality sound.

Edited June 25, 2008 by 2000Cadet

[sleggs]

There was a marked difference in sound output between PR and Crown and the four other WC corps at Stillwater and Mankato (Madison, Blue Stars, Colts and Blue Knights). However, PR has the edge by a noticeable margin over even Crown.

And let me also say: Regiment is definitely in the hunt for the brass trophy this year. Not only can they put the sound out, but it's a good sound as well.

And if you haven't heard their mello soloist, he's incredible.

I personally thought Crown was louder then Phantom. Crown gave me chills a couple of times through their show.

Yes the mello soloist was really really really good. Made me jealous.

[jdCadet07]

Trumpets were crazy loud

Me likey!

[euponitone]

Me likey!

yeah....even as a baritone player, I couldnt seem to drag myself away from their warmup....

[2000Cadet]

yeah....even as a baritone player, I couldnt seem to drag myself away from their warmup....

Geez, I can't WAIT!!

[DevTrev]

First, I must say that I am so very pleased with the amount of qualified, well thought out responses on this topic. To the original poster: I'm sorry this thread took on a more analytical direction - but I think this is great information that is beneficial to many people. Please accept my apology!

I chose DevTrev's comments to respond to because I feel like it covers a multitude of sentiments that seem to be shared by a lot of posters. So, to start:

I apologize for coming across as self-righteous. I tried to present my case in an educated light, and in so it seems that I appear as an expert. I assure you, I am not an expert! However, many of my references to the state of brass playing in the activity are derived from experts. I consider college and university professors, orchestral musicians and past marching members of drum and bugle corps to be experts - but that list is not limited! Your mention of jazz and rock bands also includes people that could be considered experts, but my focus is on people who have at least seen the activity once or twice and have an extensive knowledge about brass performance or ensemble musicianship.

Well, I'm agreeing Mr. Downey is an excellent educator. But, I seem him as an excellent educator regardless of how many Ott's he has. I feel like the brass caption is extremely subjective to the era. A drum corps that won the Jim Ott trophy in 1990 compared to a drum corps that will won the Ott trophy in 08(though this is slightly contradictory in respect to my original post) will have different characteristics to their sound - and different reasons why they won the trophy. So, in my argument, I'd rather interpret Mr. Downey's success in the sound of his hornline. In my opinion, I feel the Blue Devils have a fine hornline that has been showing some incredible signs of mature sounds - especially as of late (06-07).

There are many brilliant people that teach drum corps. There is also, in my opinion (again, just to be clear), many people who are misguided as what the ultimate goal of the ensemble should be. Should the goal be volume achieved or ensemble clarity? I feel like the goal of the ensemble should be volume achieved through individual players matching energy across the ensemble - which, after lots of practice, establishes ensemble clarity. I'm not brilliant, but that's what I was taught by people I consider brilliant. (They, too, have won the Jim Ott trophy )

I think that great jazz ensembles and orchestras create a model of brass playing that drum corps should follow. That isn't to say they should sound alike, but the techniques should be similar. Listen to Lincoln Center Jazz - especially on some of the recordings of Wynton Marsalis' ballets. There are some incredible colors that come from that ensemble. In every instance, the sound is interesting and engages the listener. In every instance the performer is in control of their sound. This sort of control - even at points where volume is at its maximum - takes years of work. In many of our drum corps, loud volumes are achieved at the cost of sound control. I think this is because many corps never work on establishing a uniform quality sound in the ensemble, but again - just my opinion.

To be clear, a great jazz trumpet player - let’s say Wynton for the sake of consistency - will have an established brass playing pedagogically sound core - and then uses style to make his sound jazzy or classical. The idea of brass playing stays consistent - when you master the basics, you can add style.

OK - I have to go back to work! I'll continue responding later - but thanks again for such incredible discussion! This is when I think drum corps planet is something truly special!

The top hornlines always have the clarity and quality that you're asking for. I think the problem you're running into is that there aren't enough great brass teachers to go around so you wind up with 2-4 great sounding corps every year, a couple mediocre, and a bunch of lack luster. But how is that different than any other competitive activity? In reference to past hornlines, let's go back a decade. The 1997 Blue Devil hornline that won high brass had just as much quality and musicianship (perhaps even more) as the 2007 Blue Devil hornline that won high brass. Quality playing is quality playing no matter what decade you're in.

Just to clarity further, you're trying to compare a youth activity with members age 14-21, to professional musicians that have been playing for longer than these people have even been alive.

Further more, many drum corps members go on to be in symphony orchestras and the like. They must be doing something right.

[2000Cadet]

The top hornlines always have the clarity and quality that you're asking for. I think the problem you're running into is that there aren't enough great brass teachers to go around so you wind up with 2-4 great sounding corps every year, a couple mediocre, and a bunch of lack luster. But how is that different than any other competitive activity? In reference to past hornlines, let's go back a decade. The 1997 Blue Devil hornline that won high brass had just as much quality and musicianship (perhaps even more) as the 2007 Blue Devil hornline that won high brass. Quality playing is quality playing no matter what decade you're in.

Just to clarity further, you're trying to compare a youth activity with members age 14-21, to professional musicians that have been playing for longer than these people have even been alive.

Further more, many drum corps members go on to be in symphony orchestras and the like. They must be doing something right.

BRAVO.

[sobe]

The top hornlines always have the clarity and quality that you're asking for. I think the problem you're running into is that there aren't enough great brass teachers to go around so you wind up with 2-4 great sounding corps every year, a couple mediocre, and a bunch of lack luster. But how is that different than any other competitive activity? In reference to past hornlines, let's go back a decade. The 1997 Blue Devil hornline that won high brass had just as much quality and musicianship (perhaps even more) as the 2007 Blue Devil hornline that won high brass. Quality playing is quality playing no matter what decade you're in.

Just to clarity further, you're trying to compare a youth activity with members age 14-21, to professional musicians that have been playing for longer than these people have even been alive.

Further more, many drum corps members go on to be in symphony orchestras and the like. They must be doing something right.

this.

[euponitone]

Ok...on to the honest debate (which i avoided this morning at my own peril)

I dont think its a matter of any brass staff conciously making their kids play with a bad sound. I think the root of the problem that bothers Presque Isle Brass so much is that they emphasize some things a great deal more than others. Another way of looking at it is that they have various 'thresholds of pain' when it comes to quality of sound. Some people will listen to Phantom or Cadets hornline and think; "how can you possibly let those players get away with those sounds". Now, I can promise you (at least in the cadets case), that gino will call out people for sticking out, or having bad tone. He has a standard, that i cant even begin to duplicate (i was trying to listen at rehearsal), and it is one thing to work on. However, with hornlines like the cadets (at least in the 00-01, 05-08 era), it seems like quality of sound and tone is something that is not held in any higher regard than playing at FFF. When much of the rehearsal is focused on timing, volume, accuracy, and dynamic contrast, basic tone quality can suffer a bit. The groups that generally have the better tone quality, are usually accused of having simpler horn books, with less simultaneous demand (do i really need to go into that). This is not a bad thing, but it is just the natural tradeoff. As long as there summer is, there is only so much time to get everything done. A hornline could spend the entire summer trying to get 2 notes in proper tune and timbre (and still maybe not succeed, given the quality and maturity of the players), or they could do some drum corps. It's just a matter of tolerance-level and preference. I prefer the later, and that's why 'I dont care'. Maybe that makes me simple, but I know what I like (red meat AND candy bars, for the record...)