DevTrev

As long as we're on the topic of Jupiter horns causing low brass scores, can we blame their shoes for low visual scores too?

Those saying CG would go to Cavies need to go back and watch that show again. Even Cavie alum admit that was one of their dirtiest guard performances of the 2000s.

No. It's very much like a professional gig. Members show up, rehearse, peace out.

Take your pick: "Dot Nazis" "Ringers" ".025" "FYWW" "FTC"

Brad Pitt and George Clooney would be BD soloists.

So did you completely miss the part where I posted the brass scores for semis and finals in order to find fault in my post? You can't ignore all the other info posted and focus on one sentence and say "aha, this doesn't help prove your point." Whether you like his data better or not is irrelevant.

Thank you for stating I am welcome to my opinion. It appears that my opinion was backed by the judging community as well. BD won 26 out of 30 shows that season if I remember correctly. Got a 10 and 9.9 during Semi's in brass and a 9.9 and 10 during Finals in brass. 2 perfect sub caption scores and a nearly flawless overall score two nights in a row. To my ears, it's quite obvious why BD won and Cadets didn't. Also, Wayne Downey once said that the 2001 BD hornline was the best he had ever worked with. I'm willing to side with him and the judges on this one, but like you said, you're welcome to your opinion.

You should have let it pass because you are wrong. The brass judge does take into account the demand placed on the individual in all aspects. Have I ever tried to balance a hornline spread across the field? Why yes I have, thank you for asking. Again there is no excusing the fact that the hornline lost it's quality and control at the end of the show. You may disagree with my statements, but realize you're also disagreeing with the judges from that season too, as all of the points I made previously were constantly pointed out all season long by the judging panels. ------------------------------------------------------------- Oh, and did you just try telling me the visual doesn't matter when taking into account the brass performance, and then bring up how hard it is to balance and play well while spread across the field and doing choreography? Contradict yourself much?

The only problem with moving them up to 2nd that I have is even after for being stationary for so much of the show (it really is an obscene amount), they start bailing out at the end of show. With all the rest time in the show, they really should not have had any endurance issues at the end. Another problem is that much of the harder playing was restricted to small ensembles/solo's while the hornline was tacet. There was just too much to pick at to have them be any higher. Cadets were very good no doubt, but people fail to see why they placed as low as they did.

Because they stood still, walked and laid down for half the show. It really hurt the difficulty of their show. Also BD was pristine in 01.

Neither did Brass, Colorguard or Visual.

Little bit different here. In 2001, BD won Brass, Visual, and Colorguard. Cavies only won GE, yet still won overall. (which was crap btw) Right now, BD is winning Brass, Visual, Colorguard and is tied for 1st in GE. Having them in 1st overall is completely understandable.

Yes, there is, and I agree.

The top hornlines always have the clarity and quality that you're asking for. I think the problem you're running into is that there aren't enough great brass teachers to go around so you wind up with 2-4 great sounding corps every year, a couple mediocre, and a bunch of lack luster. But how is that different than any other competitive activity? In reference to past hornlines, let's go back a decade. The 1997 Blue Devil hornline that won high brass had just as much quality and musicianship (perhaps even more) as the 2007 Blue Devil hornline that won high brass. Quality playing is quality playing no matter what decade you're in. Just to clarity further, you're trying to compare a youth activity with members age 14-21, to professional musicians that have been playing for longer than these people have even been alive. Further more, many drum corps members go on to be in symphony orchestras and the like. They must be doing something right.

When I read this, you reminded me of a famous quote from HG Wells. "Self-righteous morality is jealousy with a halo" You are implying that educators in drum corps do not teach quality of sound and that the way a hornline plays is somehow unintelligent or below your standards as a musician. How insulting to the many brilliant people that have taught drum corps over the years. Since the Blue Devils are mentioned here, and they do have the most brass trophies, would you say Wayne Downey does not teach proper technique or quality of sound? I have been taught by him and after years of schooling and being taught by many different professors, few could even hold a candle to him. You seem to be upset that a drum corps doesn't sound like an orchestra. Do you also think that a jazz band should sound like an orchestra? The way you approach playing trumpet in jazz is entirely different than in an orchestral setting. A jazz trumpet would not blend in an orchestra, yet would you say that they are playing with an uncharacteristic sound? Of course not. You mentioned liking that the Cavalier's mellophones sounded like a french horn. The problem with that is a mello is not a french horn. A mellophone sounds like a mellophone. It does cover the alto voice, but they are two completely different instruments. True, you can make a mello sound like a french horn, but you can also make one sound like a trumpet as I'm sure many directors have heard. Why not try to make the best mellophone sound you can? On the topic of volume. Many professors and band directors seem to be completely clueless in this area. I will tell you why volume works. It is scientifically proven that our ears prefer loud sounds. If you're listening to the radio, and a great song comes on, do you turn it down so you can enjoy the musicianship of it all? HELLO NO! You crank that sucker and rock out!! There's a reason why when you go to a rock concert, they have tons of speakers with volumes maxed. People want to feel the music. Inside a concert hall or auditorium, an orchestra can play soft and still fill the room with sound. Yet you take that same orchestra and put them on a football field, outside, 30 yards back, at 3-4 step intervals, and even their fortisimo is going to sound like a wimper. That's just the way it is. Drum corps have to play louder to create the same effect that you would get indoors. As we've seen, some are quite good at achieving the balance of great sound with great volume. Others are not. As much as you try to argue it; orchestra ≠ drum corps orchestra ≠ jazz band orchestra ≠ rock And don't for a second try to insinuate that great playing and teaching doesn't go on in each.

I prefer equal contribution from all players.

LOL!

The Firebird is in there, although very briefly. It was much clearer earlier in the season, before it was altered. If you have the CD, check out 10:52-11:02.

You might be on to something with the flugels. Hadn't considered that.

That is the truth. However, I know all too well that a change in mouthpiece can make great players sound complete different. If you get a chance, check out early season BD recordings from 2001. I'm talking anything around the May-June area. Our trumpets were playing on new mouthpieces early on which gave them a lazer like sound. It wasn't too appealing to the judges so we switched back to the good old traditional mouthpieces that were played on in 2000 and prior and the change in sound was immediate. So to sum it up, you obviously had a talented hornline with some brass guys that knew what they were doing. I'm just looking for that final ingredient. Thanks ^0^

Only saw a couple corps live in 01 as going on last doesn't let you see much. If they had the same brass staff in 01 as they did in 04 I wouldn't be surprised if they were playing on the same stuff.

I loved the sound of the brass in '04, especially early season before they got hit with the hose. I'd like to know what type of mouthpieces you guys were playing on. Most specifically the trumpets. You guys had an extremely open sound and it's either due to the mouthpiece and/or you had a brass tech that knew what he was doing. Thanks

If the last time you played Dynasty drums was back in 95, you should really try again. Part of the deal with the Blue Devils was that they would have input on how the drums were made. They made great strides in 01 and 06 and with each new set of drums, more revisions are made. Same goes with the Dynasty brass. I loved my Dynasty euph.

Sadly yes. I talked to a friend of mine after he got back from tour about them being flat and he agreed that they (Phantom) seemed a little off finals night. Also, this was the first time in quite awhile that I actually enjoyed the Cavaliers music, but they suffered from what I've been calling them on since 2001, weak brass. The difference this year was that their show was so much more musically driven than previous years that the lack of brass power brought down the effect. When I say weak brass, I mean purely from a volume point of view. My girlfriend and I agreed that if they were to take all their top volumes and double it, they would've been fantastic. The hit in Pressure where they slowly march down the field in the block would've brought the house down if the volume matched the energy of that part of the show.

Seriously now. The Blue Devils had been winning all season and scored a 19.9 (10, 9.9 + 9.9, 10) in brass at semis and finals. It was not some fluke that they won. In fact, Wayne Downey had told them that year that they were the best hornline he had ever worked with. THAT is not something to be taken lightly. The Cadets came in 3rd because of missed releases and not finishing phrases in the opener. Laying down and taking a break for a good amount of time in the ballad, and before you get all upset that I'm calling your corps out, listen to the last 30 secs of your show. You guys sound tired, there are gaps in the sound and people not contributing as much as others. This I believe is not the stuff that makes a championship hornline. The Blue Devils were just better. /thread