Why do I keep hearing that the way to get new fans is to go more BOA?

[ApathyJones]

I constantly hear (on these forums and usually by people with "Mom" at the end of their screen names) that DCI is moving towards narration and more BOA type shows in an attempt to pickup more fans and become more mainstream. Where does this logic come from?? Does anyone know someone that would watch a drum corps show and then at the end say, you know, "I don't like this but if someone was talking to me throughout about breast cancer I would totally be into it!" I just don't think these types of people exist, and if they do, they certainly don't equal the amount of long time fans that hate the changes being introduced by the Cadets, Bluecoats, etc.

In fact, I have witnessed quite the opposite reaction from my non-DCI friends. I have successfully converted non DCI people to fans over the years and upon several of them hearing The Cadet's shows from last year they were literally laughing. If anything, this is a turn off from mainstream people because the narration is so monumentally uncool that it is comical to anyone but a BOA kid who has been exposed to it. Who do you honestly know, that isn't someone who has been exposed to it through highschool band, that would see a recent Cadets show and think the narration was "cool"?

So then invariably the argument drifts to we are trying to grab the BOA kids. Do you know any band kids that actually don't watch or enjoy DCI shows because their is no narration? I don't know a single one. If you are a band geek then chances are you enjoy DCI shows if you have ever been exposed to one, with or without narration.

So, this brings up the question, who are we as an activity trying to win with the recent narration trend?

Edited July 3, 2008 by ApathyJones

[chaddyt]

I constantly hear (on these forums and usually by people with "Mom" at the end of their screen names) that DCI is moving towards narration and more BOA type shows in an attempt to pickup more fans and become more mainstream. Where does this logic come from?? Does anyone know someone that would watch a drum corps show and then at the end say, you know, "I don't like this but if someone was talking to me throughout about breast cancer I would totally be into it!" I just don't think these types of people exist, and if they do, they certainly don't equal the amount of long time fans that hate the changes being introduced by the Cadets, Bluecoats, etc.

In fact, I have witnessed quite the opposite reaction from my non-DCI friends. I have successfully converted non DCI people to fans over the years and upon several of them hearing The Cadet's shows from last year they were literally laughing. If anything, this is a turn off from mainstream people because the narration is so monumentally uncool that it is comical to anyone but a BOA kid who has been exposed to it. Who do you honestly know, that isn't someone who has been exposed to it through highschool band, that would see a recent Cadets show and think the narration was "cool"?

So then invariably the argument drifts to we are trying to grab the BOA kids. Do you know any band kids that actually don't watch or enjoy DCI shows because their is no narration? I don't know a single one. If you are a band geek then chances are you enjoy DCI shows if you have ever been exposed to one, with or without narration.

So, this brings up the question, who are we as an activity trying to win with the recent narration trend?

I still don't understand how DCI as a whole is pushing towards more BOA-type shows. They've allowed the use of some of the same tools that BOA uses.

That's all.

Whether a corps uses them or not is up to the particular corps. So far, only a handful have decided to do so, and only one in particular has garnered any derision of measure.

ETA: What narration trend?

Edited July 3, 2008 by chaddyt

[BozzlyB]

Great questions, if you ever figure out the answer PM me. Personally I think narration use will die out completely after a while (except for Cadets maybe) . People are realizing you don't need it, corps continue to compete successfully in the top 5 without it, and it's just too controversial to be worth it.

[BlueKnightMom]

I constantly hear (on these forums and usually by people with "Mom" at the end of their screen names) that DCI is moving towards narration and more BOA type shows in an attempt to pickup more fans and become more mainstream. Where does this logic come from?? Does anyone know someone that would watch a drum corps show and then at the end say, you know, "I don't like this but if someone was talking to me throughout about breast cancer I would totally be into it!" I just don't think these types of people exist, and if they do, they certainly don't equal the amount of long time fans that hate the changes being introduced by the Cadets, Bluecoats, etc.

In fact, I have witnessed quite the opposite reaction from my non-DCI friends. I have successfully converted non DCI people to fans over the years and upon several of them hearing The Cadet's shows from last year they were literally laughing. If anything, this is a turn off from mainstream people because the narration is so monumentally uncool that it is comical to anyone but a BOA kid who has been exposed to it. Who do you honestly know, that isn't someone who has been exposed to it through highschool band, that would see a recent Cadets show and think the narration was "cool"?

So then invariably the argument drifts to we are trying to grab the BOA kids. Do you know any band kids that actually don't watch or enjoy DCI shows because their is no narration? I don't know a single one. If you are a band geek then chances are you enjoy DCI shows if you have ever been exposed to one, with or without narration.

So, this brings up the question, who are we as an activity trying to win with the recent narration trend?

If people do say that Drum Corps is becoming more like BOA ) then narration isn't why people say that. I don't even understand why narration would even be considered BOA. I haven't seen a single high school show in marching band or winter percussion with narration in TX or CO.

Calling something BOA has more to do with how the show themes and costumes and music are getting more and more campy so they can be "accessible to the audience" or funny. If that works, then it works. I could be totally wrong here, but as I stated in another thread, when I see a show based on the movie Super Bad or 40 Year Old Virgin, that's gonna really be a lowpoint.

Drum Corps is pretty obscure. (have to put on my flame suit now) I will tell you - only ONE person in my entire department of 36 people had ever even heard of drum corps. NOBODY in my family or my husband's family had every heard of Drum Corps. Then you explain it and they say, "You mean like marching band?" Ugh. Maybe it's big in certain cities or states, but most people have not heard of it.

And as to the source of this information - you're saying it's people with "mom" at the end of their names. Who knows if Drum Corps really is becoming "more BOA". If you're quoting me, that's not what I was saying at all.

[ApathyJones]

I still don't understand how DCI as a whole is pushing towards more BOA-type shows. They've allowed the use of some of the same tools that BOA uses.

That's all.

Whether a corps uses them or not is up to the particular corps. So far, only a handful have decided to do so, and only one in particular has garnered any derision of measure.

ETA: What narration trend?

Well multiple shows in the past few years have included narration, so I would consider that a trend...

I was only pointing out that anytime anyone brings this topic up someone invariably cites that it is to increase the fan base and I am just confused at who these people we are trying to get are.

[rut-roh]

How many shows this year have any type of mic'd voice in it? I think only two...Cadets and Bluecoats...unless I'm missing someone.

[salad315]

How many shows this year have any type of mic'd voice in it? I think only two...Cadets and Bluecoats...unless I'm missing someone.

If someone charted the number of shows with amped voice in each year it would go something like

2 3 2 5 2...or something like that (i dont like doing research). Still, not seeing much of a trend.

[ApathyJones]

If people do say that Drum Corps is becoming more like BOA ) then narration isn't why people say that. I don't even understand why narration would even be considered BOA. I haven't seen a single high school show in marching band or winter percussion with narration in TX or CO.

Calling something BOA has more to do with how the show themes and costumes and music are getting more and more campy so they can be "accessible to the audience" or funny. If that works, then it works. I could be totally wrong here, but as I stated in another thread, when I see a show based on the movie Super Bad or 40 Year Old Virgin, that's gonna really be a lowpoint.

Drum Corps is pretty obscure. (have to put on my flame suit now) I will tell you - only ONE person in my entire department of 36 people had ever even heard of drum corps. NOBODY in my family or my husband's family had every heard of Drum Corps. Then you explain it and they say, "You mean like marching band?" Ugh. Maybe it's big in certain cities or states, but most people have not heard of it.

And as to the source of this information - you're saying it's people with "mom" at the end of their names. Who knows if Drum Corps really is becoming "more BOA". If you're quoting me, that's not what I was saying at all.

I guess I (and others) consider it BOA because until recently it was not present in DCI in any capacity, WAS present in BOA, and that the leadership of some of the top corps also work in the BOA field. It seems obvious to me that that is where it came from.

Also I was not SPECIFICALLY calling you out, I was just saying for some reason this year there are multiple new people posting, with Mom in their names (I'm assuming because they are the mothers of current marching members) that seem to exhibit little knowledge of DCI (probably because they are new "fans" due to their kid/kids being in a corps) that see no problem with the narration and are jumping in with both feet trying to convince people that have MANY years of drum corps experience under their belts that we need to learn to change if we want the activity to not go belly up. I have years of marching and teaching experience under my belt personally and having someone pop in with limited knowledge and talk down to me is frustrating to say the least.

[wolfgang]

I constantly hear (on these forums and usually by people with "Mom" at the end of their screen names) that DCI is moving towards narration and more BOA type shows in an attempt to pickup more fans and become more mainstream. Where does this logic come from?? Does anyone know someone that would watch a drum corps show and then at the end say, you know, "I don't like this but if someone was talking to me throughout about breast cancer I would totally be into it!" I just don't think these types of people exist, and if they do, they certainly don't equal the amount of long time fans that hate the changes being introduced by the Cadets, Bluecoats, etc.

In fact, I have witnessed quite the opposite reaction from my non-DCI friends. I have successfully converted non DCI people to fans over the years and upon several of them hearing The Cadet's shows from last year they were literally laughing. If anything, this is a turn off from mainstream people because the narration is so monumentally uncool that it is comical to anyone but a BOA kid who has been exposed to it. Who do you honestly know, that isn't someone who has been exposed to it through highschool band, that would see a recent Cadets show and think the narration was "cool"?

So then invariably the argument drifts to we are trying to grab the BOA kids. Do you know any band kids that actually don't watch or enjoy DCI shows because their is no narration? I don't know a single one. If you are a band geek then chances are you enjoy DCI shows if you have ever been exposed to one, with or without narration.

So, this brings up the question, who are we as an activity trying to win with the recent narration trend?

Looking past the condescending tone of this post, there is a logical fallacy behind the thought process.

Even people who don't mind narration have pointed out that what the Cadets are doing seems forced, not well written, etc. You are assuming because the Cadets are having issues with it, then a lowly band must absolutely reek with narration.

Not necessarily so. Depends on the quality of the words and/or performance. Case in point, if you get a chance to see Tarpon Springs 2006 show, with narration (recorded narration at that), it would be worth the 10 minutes it would take to see it. I can't vouch for the quality of recordings that may be available, but I can tell you their BOA Grand Nationals performance was spectacular, with one of the best uses of spoken word I've ever heard on the field.

I've heard shows with narration that have made me roll my eyes, shows that I'm neutral on, and yes, a few where the words meshed with the concept to make something memorable.

Can you produce one quote on this board where anyone said corps should "try to be more like BOA"? I'd like to see that quote, as I've never seen any posts like that.

Wolfgang

[CreativeType]

*snip*

So, this brings up the question, who are we as an activity trying to win with the recent narration trend?

I think this question assumes that the purpose of narration in a show is to "win" anyone or anything. Not that I am inside the mind of George Hopkins or any of the people who were behind the passing of the amplification rule, but I think that may have only been one of the many factors that came in to play when deciding to allow it to pass.

I think that allowing amps opened the possibilities for many new options and effects, and the spoken word is just one of those possibilities. It has been used with varying degrees of acceptance and abhorrence to this point but my guess is that in all cases the designers thought it was to further the design of the show. I don't think there was ever any conscious thought, "Yes, if I have a story line in this one, maybe I'll win all those wanna-be voice actors and attract them to our guard!"

Then again, if I were a theatre major who didn't get accepted into a program, I might think "acting" on a football field was better than nothing.