A thread for George

[salad315]

Lets start with the basics - there are a lot of smart people on this website. There are a lot of well written viewpoints, informative posts, and things that maybe even the creative staffs of the various corps out there havent thought about. However, in order to get to that information, one often has to sift through a smattering of garbage. I personally find no fault in that, in fact I have a tendency to get my shots and jokes in like anyone else, but I want this thread to be different. As someone noted in the other cadets thread, it's hard to blame hopkins for thinking what he does about dcp, but I would like this thread ... to be different.

To those of you that have been presenting excellent ideas about the cadets show, and narration (bawker, jwillis, liam, come to mind) - I know you've just finished writing your opinions down, so feel free to copy and paste them into this thead. Maybe they can continue to spark interesting debate, as they have been in other places.

To those of you that are reading this and salivating - thinking about what kind of insults you can throw, I respectfully ask you to refrain from doing so for this thread. I understand that debates need to happen for conversation to go on, but try and treat your conversation as you would if you were at a show wearing your corps jackets. If you feel the need to insult this thread, or the cadets, or narration, there are 2 other threads entirely about them already on page one, and several others that are tangentally related where you can have your fun. Besides, if the thread goes down that path, I will simply ask for it to be closed asap (or whenever i get up for work at 530 am ) It's like i told my 11 year old class - if you cant shut up for 10 seconds, just one time, there's no way I can respect or trust you to do anything else.

Well there you have it. The Cadets 2008 show. Thoughts?

[Meaghatron]

The Madison WebCast was the first time I saw the show in its entirety. The narration seemed choppy and poorly written. I believe the biggest problem with the story is that it is so compacted. In essence, Sarah Jones (is that the name?) is probably around the age of 40. At least, that's what I assume. Most women who are diagnosed with breast cancer and then go into remission aren't usually very young. If I'm wrong, correct me. At the oldest, she is maybe in her 60s. That is a lot of life to cover in such a short period of time. The actual narration, her telling the story, is only around 2.5 minutes I think, which is not much time to squeeze in her story from college to present. Her story is so vague, that I really don't get the chance to be emotionally involved. Isn't that the point? To hit certain emotions? The break-ups of the sections make it difficult to stay connected, too.

I liken it to watching a short piece on ESPN. Every so often, Sportscenter does an emotional piece about an inspirational athlete who has defied the odds, or even a young child who got his wish by meeting his favorite player. The pieces tend to be 5 minutes or so, filled with narration by the reporter and an interview with the person. I probably cry every time I see one. It connects so quickly. It's so real. The Cadets narration is just too forced. From the get go, it doesn't connect on that level. I don't believe it ever will. There's too much going on to do so. When the character first starts talking, I want to hear the rest, but then the rest of the corps comes in, so I get involved in the music. Then the story. Then the music. There's no fluidity. I almost want there to be more talking. (I know, crazy!)

The ESPN pieces give a quick background story, but moves into the present. It doesn't gradually cover an entire person's life. It devotes a short time to the backstory, then shifts to the main section of the story. In my opinion, the narration should focus more on a smaller time period in the person's life. Or as another suggested, make it the character's daughter focusing on how her mother found happiness. The story, to me, is too vague to get connected to. The delivery doesn't help either. As others have mentioned, a 20-year old woman acting like (an at least) 40-year old woman isn't believable.

I don't know any specifics about changing this line or that line. And I'm sure that GH will change the script numerous times before Finals. I do like the ending the most. At first I thought it was cheesy, but after viewing it a second time, I don't think it's that bad. Unfortunately, I think Hopkins might have to chalk this one up to experience. I don't know if the show design can handle a total re-haul in the narration. But that's just my opinion.

[salad315]

The Madison WebCast was the first time I saw the show in its entirety. The narration seemed choppy and poorly written. I believe the biggest problem with the story is that it is so compacted. In essence, Sarah Jones (is that the name?) is probably around the age of 40. At least, that's what I assume. Most women who are diagnosed with breast cancer and then go into remission aren't usually very young. If I'm wrong, correct me. At the oldest, she is maybe in her 60s. That is a lot of life to cover in such a short period of time. The actual narration, her telling the story, is only around 2.5 minutes I think, which is not much time to squeeze in her story from college to present. Her story is so vague, that I really don't get the chance to be emotionally involved. Isn't that the point? To hit certain emotions? The break-ups of the sections make it difficult to stay connected, too.

I liken it to watching a short piece on ESPN. Every so often, Sportscenter does an emotional piece about an inspirational athlete who has defied the odds, or even a young child who got his wish by meeting his favorite player. The pieces tend to be 5 minutes or so, filled with narration by the reporter and an interview with the person. I probably cry every time I see one. It connects so quickly. It's so real. The Cadets narration is just too forced. From the get go, it doesn't connect on that level. I don't believe it ever will. There's too much going on to do so. When the character first starts talking, I want to hear the rest, but then the rest of the corps comes in, so I get involved in the music. Then the story. Then the music. There's no fluidity. I almost want there to be more talking. (I know, crazy!)

The ESPN pieces give a quick background story, but moves into the present. It doesn't gradually cover an entire person's life. It devotes a short time to the backstory, then shifts to the main section of the story. In my opinion, the narration should focus more on a smaller time period in the person's life. Or as another suggested, make it the character's daughter focusing on how her mother found happiness. The story, to me, is too vague to get connected to. The delivery doesn't help either. As others have mentioned, a 20-year old woman acting like (an at least) 40-year old woman isn't believable.

I don't know any specifics about changing this line or that line. And I'm sure that GH will change the script numerous times before Finals. I do like the ending the most. At first I thought it was cheesy, but after viewing it a second time, I don't think it's that bad. Unfortunately, I think Hopkins might have to chalk this one up to experience. I don't know if the show design can handle a total re-haul in the narration. But that's just my opinion.

Cool. Im not going to comment on the whole thing, but i think the biggest issue with this show is one of balance. For the story to be told adequately, it seems like they would need twice as much time talking (even with changes to the story). Obviously, they need to leave some room in there for drum corps. I've always upheld that the cadets do a good job of keeping the 'drum corps' in their shows (especially last year - not so much in 06), even when they choose to narrate. They are already dangerously close to the line though, and I think adding more talking would push them past it.

So that basically leaves us with changing the story entirely. Not sure how likely that is, but i guess hypotheticals are ok///

[The Other Mike]

Next year, use the theme from "all things considered" to tie in several settings of the show.

Just like with All Things Considered, all things CAN be considered when presented in the right, or most inviting light.

Just as Pictures at an Exibition uses the main theme to segue from picture to picture ( in most cases) use the theme in the different styles of music as does the NPR show to reset the mood or feeling.

A patchwork quilt of American issues or the chasing of dreams, of happiness, whatever it might be, all tied together by the spoken word is something even "I" can appreciate ( and lets face facts that I'm most likely the lowest common denominator in drum corps )

Or, as many bands have used voice:

Let the voice be the DJ as the radio keeps changing stations

And thats the news from Lake Wowthatsnotabadidea

where the hornlines are loud, the drill is clean, and the narration is above average

[SPINCYCLE]

Next year, use the theme from "all things considered" to tie in several settings of the show.

Just like with All Things Considered, all things CAN be considered when presented in the right, or most inviting light.

Just as Pictures at an Exibition uses the main theme to segue from picture to picture ( in most cases) use the theme in the different styles of music as does the NPR show to reset the mood or feeling.

A patchwork quilt of American issues or the chasing of dreams, of happiness, whatever it might be, all tied together by the spoken word is something even "I" can appreciate ( and lets face facts that I'm most likely the lowest common denominator in drum corps )

Or, as many bands have used voice:

Let the voice be the DJ as the radio keeps changing stations

And thats the news from Lake Wowthatsnotabadidea

where the hornlines are loud, the drill is clean, and the narration is above average

Im not trying to be a smart ### BUT....why even talk about it anymore,. They will do what they need to

to be the best they can be by championships just like all the others..this is such a dead subject ( Or should be )

Its easy for all of us to sit on the sidelines and critique but I say leave it to them who live with it every day and make it better,

[salad315]

Im not trying to be a smart ### BUT....why even talk about it anymore,. They will do what they need to

to be the best they can be by championships just like all the others..this is such a dead subject ( Or should be )

Its easy for all of us to sit on the sidelines and critique but I say leave it to them who live with it every day and make it better,

I understand your feelings (about it being a dead horse), but frankly, i've been seeing good ideas pop up every now and then that get ignored or buried under all the other rhetoric. I mean, honestly, what you said describes pretty much every drum corps that we talk about, yet we still talk about them. At least with THIS corps, we know that the director occasionally visits this place, and i've always thought it would be cool to have differin viewpoints that havent been heard a thousand times already (and some of the ideas i saw tossed around tonight ARE indeed different.

[euphguy]

I really like this show, WITH narration. I was happy that some parts were eliminated according to the video post earlier. But this show is much more amenable to narration than previous shows. Somehow, it "fits," not to mention I love the music (Ticheli rocks!). That's all.

[salad315]

I really like this show, WITH narration. I was happy that some parts were eliminated according to the video post earlier. But this show is much more amenable to narration than previous shows. Somehow, it "fits," not to mention I love the music (Ticheli rocks!). That's all.

I sort of feel similar. I dont really find the idea of doing the npr thing (again) all that innovative (at least 2005 I could buy that, even if it was tried on a band first), but that doesnt mean I cant like it. I dont know - I guess I dont have as much of a problem with the story as others, but maybe thats because I can buy into the message of the show.

[The Other Mike]

Im not trying to be a smart ### BUT....why even talk about it anymore,. They will do what they need to

to be the best they can be by championships just like all the others..this is such a dead subject ( Or should be )

Its easy for all of us to sit on the sidelines and critique but I say leave it to them who live with it every day and make it better,

Because I thought my idea was actually pretty decent and might actually use it myself

And at my age I get few decent ideas anymore.

So to make sure it doesn't get stolen and not get any credit for it such as a free bumper sticker (like the "door " show that was stolen from a high school band ), I wanted to post it for all to see. TWICE.

Throw eggs and rotten produce if you wish but please, no stones.

and now for a touch of Phantom:

[salad315]

Because I thought my idea was actually pretty decent and might actually use it myself

And at my age I get few decent ideas anymore.

So to make sure it doesn't get stolen and not get any credit for it such as a free bumper sticker (like the "door " show that was stolen from a high school band ), I wanted to post it for all to see. TWICE.

Throw eggs and rotten produce if you wish but please, no stones.

and now for a touch of Phantom:

Hmm...i know this is a little ot, but wasnt the zone show (which you say was stolen), marc sylvester's idea in the first place. IIRC, he tried out something like it (yes there was a door, and it was kind of weird....thats about it for similarities) on a high school band, but was hardly stolen or copied. Anyway.....back to the present.