A thread for George

[MikeD]

Because I thought my idea was actually pretty decent and might actually use it myself

And at my age I get few decent ideas anymore.

Really? With all that time people of our age spend on the 'throne' just stthinking?

[The Other Mike]

Really? With all that time people of our age spend on the 'throne' just stthinking?

Uhhhh, is THAT why people keep saying I'm full of myself ?

[LoveKathyG]

Well there you have it. The Cadets 2008 show. Thoughts?

Ya' know...

I EXPECTED TO HATE THE SHOW BECAUSE I DO NOT LIKE BEING PREACHED AT!!!!!!! But the message didn't really evoke any reaction from me...

I EXPECTED TO HATE THE SHOW BECAUSE OF THE NARRATION!!!!! But the voices didn't really evoke any reaction from me...

I EXPECTED TO HATE THE SHOW BECAUSE I DON'T LIKE HOPKINS TELLING ME WHAT DC SHOULD AND SHOULDN'T BE!!!! But the agenda didn't really evoke any reaction from me...

Really... I was just bored. The show just didn't evoke ANY reaction from me...

[troon8]

I'll give it ago...several important points mentioned I already agree with.

- Economizing the amount of wordage had an unforseen affect - we're only getting teeny tiny pieces of a multi-faceted life story. This presents a paradox: too many words, and you detract from intended focus. Too little, and you're unable to tell the story you're trying to. For example, the phrase "breast cancer survivor" is just sort of dropped on us. Other then the introduction, I can't recall hearing anything about that later on. Yet the fact that she survived breast cancer would obviously a hugely significant impact on "Sarah Jones' " life and impact her point of view on said pursuit of happiness. But with the way it stands right now, it might as well have been "...and...she's a hangnail survivor." Same goes for things like going off to college, job on Madison Ave, growing apart from her lover, etc. I'm not sure how to fix this. Right now it's almost as if the corps (fantastic as they are,) are presenting background music (and background motion) to sort of fill in the gaps and respond thematically to the story points, but in such a loose way that we're still not sure exactly how it all fits together.

- One thing especially distracting to me (being an actor, my eye tends to be naturally drawn towards what's happening on a stage, even if it is in the middle of a football field,) is how the two actors are still miming a conversation while the corps is playing. It looks natural enough, but it's a pretty glaring juxtaposition against 150 odd musicians & dancers in fast motion around them. If this were a play, (which it's not,) and I were directing (which I'm most certainly not!) and it was this little stage dialogue intrespersed with something else happening on stage, I might dim the lights, or even have them freeze. But since neither of these are really preffered options, one very serious suggestion would be to NOT have two actors "on stage" talking to each other, regardless of the script. This makes sense to me for several reasons...

We're brought into the world of this semi-fictional radio broadcast. This is not exactly a motion-heavy role for two actors. If their motions are realistic, they won't be visible at all from mid to upper levels of most stadiums, and if they were to exaggerate instead, it would look pretty silly to people down on the lower stands. What's critical is what they're saying, not what they're visibly doing, since all that really consists of is sitting in a living room talking back & forth, and that image doesn't actually reinforce the story they're trying to tell. This is very different from Alice & Wonderland characters interacting with what's going on around them all over the field, and also different from last year's speakers talking about why they love performing in the midst of The Cadets Drum & Bugle Corps, which they belong to. You'd at least eliminate any visual disconnect with what's happening on the field. Besides, it wouldn't be a difficult switch, since you've already got two voices hidden from view. Which brings us to...

- I have no doubt...NONE...that the two voice actors are working hard at filling their roles as best they can. But at this stage, their performance of the script sounds very "rehearsed" at best. The way it sounds right now, it's hard for me to suspend disbelief and not imagine them reading from a script behind that screen (regardless of whether it's actually memorized or not.) Part of this is practical - they have to coordinate their dialogue precicely to the corps, so it's not as if they have much room for spontenaity in their timing, considerably less so than say, musical theatre actors do with an orchestra. I would love to hear what it sounded like if they didn't have to worry as much about timing things to the 32nd count. But the other part is the simple fact that as someone who got his degree in it, (OK, I'll readily admit that I'm relishing the fact that I get to prove a point and gloat from my experience like some who do on here because they're proffesional musicians ) I can tell you that acting is HARD. I don't know anything about the background of these two performers, and I also don't know anything about what sort of training process they're going through, but I'd very much like to observe it to see just how it's being approached. (The snippet on YEA.org didn't show all that much.) I actually did email George last season out of curiousity to ask if he had brought in any sort of experienced actors to help train, and his response was (this is copied directly. There's a certain Haiku-like poetry to his spacing and punctuation...)

"We have had coaches in..

From time to time. Some of this ... was trial and error ..

And some ,..

Hard work"

I'm at least reassured that George recognizes that yes, it is hard work. My biggest hope is by the end of the season that the two characters will be able to make whatever they're saying "their own." It'll be tough, but if they're approaching it with the same work ethic that the musicians and guard are, I'm confident they'll get there. To all those who are saying that it's hard to pull off because the young woman talking isn't a 40ish survivor of breast cancer, divorce, etc., yes, it certainly is. But it can be done. If you've ever seen a really good play, you know what I mean. And no, Drum Corps isn't a play...but this particular show has elements of one, so those are my 2 cents for what they're worth.

Edited July 10, 2008 by troon8

[ShortAndFast]

My main suggestion is to look at the narration as drama, and to try to evaluate whether it's succeeding as, effectively, a 3.5 minute one-act play about the life of Sarah Jones. If it doesn't work as drama, it's unlikely that the audience will experience the emotions you want them to experience, and it's unlikely that they'll find the overall Cadets show compelling no matter how well they play and march.

Specific issues that I see are:

- Age and skill level of actors. Sarah sounds like a college student, not like a 50 yr old woman who has experienced love, marriage, childbirth, professional success and a life-threatening illness. She speaks about these weighty subjects in a rushed and artificial tone. The listener should be able to suspend his or her disbelief and imagine that they are hearing a real woman tell her story.

- Script. A closely related issue is that the script doesn't develop Sarah as a credible adult character. If you met a 50 year old woman who kept going on about about her youthful love affairs and her corporate career, but barely mentioned her husband or children, you'd probably think her shallow and self-centered, not wise.

- Rapport between "Ira" and Sarah. There is very little. The "play" never creates the ambience of a radio interview, or makes me think that the interviewer is really trying to understand his subject or to get her to say things which enlighten the listener. Perhaps the two actors should spend some time improvising in character? Perhaps they should have some pre-show dialog to better establish their characters and their relationship?

- Lesson? The overall tone of the script suggests that Sarah has learned something important and wants to share it with the listener, but she doesn't actually do so. From the standpoint of Ira's character, why is he doing this interview? What does he hope to communicate to his listeners? Does he succeed?

Best wishes for the rest of the season, George. It's to your credit that you participate in forums like DCP, even when they are heavily critical of you and the corps. Hopefully this thread produces some useful suggestions for you and your team.

[The Other Mike]

Hmm...i know this is a little ot, but wasnt the zone show (which you say was stolen), marc sylvester's idea in the first place. IIRC, he tried out something like it (yes there was a door, and it was kind of weird....thats about it for similarities) on a high school band, but was hardly stolen or copied. Anyway.....back to the present.

Was it ? I remember a staff member of the high school band on RAMD pretty upset about it.

If so, then I apoligize and will be happy to hold up a sign at any show I'm at saying " I'm the idot".

( but most people know me that way without a sign )

[Tone Quality Matters]

Completely respect George Hopkins contributions to the activity and his involvement with youth.

This years dose of Narration from Cadets is over the top, and may actually help quicken it's decreased use.

I simply think that you can tell a story through music and movement without talking to the crowd about it.

[I play the baritone good]

Last year's narration I felt weakened the activity by portraying drum corps as dorky band geeks. That was really my only complaint. This year my only complaint is I can "see" the show being designed as I watch it. I feel like this with The Cavaliers' show this year as well. The drill that The Cadets march during the long sections of narration is super slow and boring. They would NEVER be able to get away with hardly moving like that if there wasn't narration to draw your attention away. This is my only problem with it... as soon as the narration becomes the focus, the music and drill take a back seat. I feel that this allows The Cadets to get away with marching easier drill than their competition. I'm not saying The Cadets don't move -- they have some difficult moves this year. But whereas SCV has difficult moves for pretty much the entire show, The Cadets have a lot more "breaks" where they just kinda slowly move around and play soft while the narration happens. I feel like this is a cop out, and allows The Cadets to do less while being rewarded for more.

[thePerfectbuzz]

Last year's narration I felt weakened the activity by portraying drum corps as dorky band geeks. That was really my only complaint. This year my only complaint is I can "see" the show being designed as I watch it. I feel like this with The Cavaliers' show this year as well. The drill that The Cadets march during the long sections of narration is super slow and boring. They would NEVER be able to get away with hardly moving like that if there wasn't narration to draw your attention away. This is my only problem with it... as soon as the narration becomes the focus, the music and drill take a back seat. I feel that this allows The Cadets to get away with marching easier drill than their competition. I'm not saying The Cadets don't move -- they have some difficult moves this year. But whereas SCV has difficult moves for pretty much the entire show, The Cadets have a lot more "breaks" where they just kinda slowly move around and play soft while the narration happens. I feel like this is a cop out, and allows The Cadets to do less while being rewarded for more.

Yeah kinda like every other year when they move around a lot and other corps (via BD 2007) stood around half the show?? kinda like that? stop using narration as an excuse to hate the Cadets....they're good, get over it. they never get rewarded for the easy stuff and they never take an easy way out. could you imagine if they did some of the easy park and bark shows that some of the other top corps did?? or marched at the tempos phantom and crown did? then they wouldn't be THE Cadets. They clean and get better than everyone else with hard packages and while taking chances with show designs....sure they have hit and misses, but they always have some of the most difficult programs

[I play the baritone good]

Yeah kinda like every other year when they move around a lot and other corps (via BD 2007) stood around half the show?? kinda like that? stop using narration as an excuse to hate the Cadets....they're good, get over it. they never get rewarded for the easy stuff and they never take an easy way out. could you imagine if they did some of the easy park and bark shows that some of the other top corps did?? or marched at the tempos phantom and crown did? then they wouldn't be THE Cadets. They clean and get better than everyone else with hard packages and while taking chances with show designs....sure they have hit and misses, but they always have some of the most difficult programs

Notice how my entire post was dealing with "this year", which drill-wise is one of the easier programs when compared to other corps. And yes, BD is usually in this boat too. Not this year however. And this thread wasn't about BD, it was about The Cadets.

Don't get me wrong. In my opinion The Cadets' hornline has been UNMATCHED since 2005. I do not hate The Cadets, and in spite of the narration their 2007 show is the one I watch the most from last year (their Blue Shades was just the deal). However, this "new" (and it's only new to drum corps mind you, bands been doing it for years) show design direction is allowing them to march less impressive drill and still hang with the big boys. Not saying other corps don't do it in their own ways as well (looking at you, BD), but that's not what this thread is about.

Edited July 10, 2008 by I play the baritone good