I first said it in 2000 on RAMD,

[CallipygianKing]

And I have to disagree with you. I am amused by the concept, and it seems more tongue-in-cheek and playful than just flat-out imitating. The concept is fun, entertaining, and familiar.

On a side note, I can see this as a VK show as well... Someday.

The idea or the music?

A little late with the reply to you, but a little from "Column A" and a little from "Column B". I imagine that if VK took the idea of a show made up of closers they'd run in a bit of a different direction. But I imagine that some of the music choices would be similar.

Personal challenge: Create a VK-esque visual program to go with Crown's 2008 music book. Or just carry on with the Crown discussion without me sidetracking it.

[Harmonious Cacophony]

I like the idea that a show can be fun and lighthearted, but still quality drum corps. Everyone's shows are so serious nowadays. I love Crown's show because you can sit back, smile, laugh, and enjoy a great show. Finis is Smiles Times.

[ShortAndFast]

This is not true. Today's Bb hornlines play in Bb most of the time. Yesterday's G bugle hornlines played in G most the time (concert pitch).

Is this really true? The famous BD warmup in the days of the G bugle was known as the "F Tuning Sequence". Some videos from that unmentionable site confirm that it was played in Concert C, and thus was written in F major on the horn.

These days, BD plays the warmup in Concert Bb, or C major on a Bb trumpet.

So if you thought that BD used to play that warmup higher than they do today, you remembered it correctly. Any idea why they choose a different relative key for the Bb instruments and the G instruments?

[leeb]

I think both Crown and Bluecoats have put out some awesome shows the last few years. Both corps are finally breaking into the top 7, and are really starting to challenge even the top 3.

2 years ago I would have probably given the edge to Bluecoats, but this year the advantage definitely goes to Crown. Great show design, great performance from the corps. I think either Crown or Bluecoats will be the next new champion. Right now I would guess Crown.

Last year I would have said Bluecoats mostly because of the drum line. Now i would say Crown. Life is full of change!!!

[salad315]

This is not true. Today's Bb hornlines play in Bb most of the time. Yesterday's G bugle hornlines played in G most the time (concert pitch).

3rd valve is only NECESSARY under the following scenarios:

1) You want to play lower notes in the tubas/contras (lower notes in Trp and bari can be picked up by a lower voice. There's nothing lower than tuba)

2) You insist on using the G# (treble clef transposing) in the staff. (Note that Frenchies could play this no problem. Frenchies had a complete chromatic scale starting on their low A, cuz their harmonic series is an octave higher than written)

3) You want to use all 12 chromatic keys to their best advantage.

Number 3 is the reason that is most often cited by the 3-valve wishers/arrangers. Any arranger wants to be able to use alternate keys, and have every combination available.

Unfortunately, very few corps actually take full advantage of this, except for the elite. Crown has chosen a very simple harmonic concept for their show. More power to them. It's effective, entertaining and easy. They could play most of their show on 2-V bugles. They never get away from Bb/Eb, and every loud long note is Bb, cept for the end which is in Eb.

Of the shows in the East, Bloo seems intent on NOT playing in Bb for some crazy reason. They got some Bb in there, for sure (end of the third tune and boxer chorale), but they sound a lot more "harmonically fertile" than some of the corps in front of them.

Finally, I trust percussion judges to hear this stuff. They've been listening to Bb forever. If they're as discerning as they're supposed to be, they should be looking for harmonic intrigue at all times. All music captions include harmony, even field brass.

I like to think DCI wouldn't put a non-musician percussion person up there in GE and ENS land.

Actually, I have literally played a couple famous drum corps charts that were written for bugles, and then were rearranged for Bb. Normally they were in C major, or D major. The few times we plaved a chart in D major, it was transposed back to Eb for us...but thats about it. Just in general though...it seems that the arrangements were written higher in the 80s and 90s. As Far as Bd's F tuning....they just do what they want with it. I'm pretty sure it was never in G...pre Bb era it was "C tuning", and now I think its in Bb (or F....).

[Bruckner8]

Actually, I have literally played a couple famous drum corps charts that were written for bugles, and then were rearranged for Bb. Normally they were in C major, or D major. The few times we plaved a chart in D major, it was transposed back to Eb for us...but thats about it. Just in general though...it seems that the arrangements were written higher in the 80s and 90s. As Far as Bd's F tuning....they just do what they want with it. I'm pretty sure it was never in G...pre Bb era it was "C tuning", and now I think its in Bb (or F....).

Now hang on a minute. Listen to yourself. You mention C and D Major for G bugles. Do you know that those keys correspond to Eb and F on Bb horns? (The subdominant and dominant of the horn.)

Band pieces are almost always in Bb, Eb or F. Drum corps are now usually in Bb, Eb or F. Drum corps today have warmups/tuning exercises in Bb, Eb and F.

On G Bugles, yes there was the ever-popular "F Tuning" which is in Concert C. But make no mistake, corps on G bugles played in Bugle C (concert G) as often as corps today play in Bb! And played in Bugle F (concert C) as ofte as corps today play in Eb, and Bugle G (concert D) as often as F.

G Bugles are a THIRD LOWER than Bb horns. That pattern is exactly the same. Therefore, G Bugle hornlines sound lower to me.

The "order of Keys" from lowest to highest would be:

G, Bb, C, D, Eb, F

For you to think today's hornlines sound lower, would impply that you think hornlines always played in concert C or D before, and only in concert Bb today! And ya know, maybe you're right, especially if you like Crown this year!

[justgin]

Carolina Crown will be the next new champion of DCI. No, it will not be this year, and it will not be next year, but I do predict that the year 2010 will see Carolina Crown as the DCI Champion.

When I look back and judge this corps as a whole, no by individual years. Their shows have been so entertaining, so crwod pleasing, so unique, and so diverse. I really liked every year except for the "Gods/myths" show, only because it could have been so much better.

2004 was even a great year, sans singing and poetry reading. But since 2004 ? These shows are monsters.

Their presence on the field this year, the confidence, profesionalism, poise and carriage is just amazing and titally remind me of how I felt about Garfield back in 1982, especially that night in August in Bayonne.

The attitude of these kids is also unreal, so frickin nice to talk to and engage in conversation with. They are so gracious when complimenting them and arenot rude when critical, they have a sense of humour and everyone I talked to this year so far just stopped and chatted away as if not a care in the world.

This orgamization is just overflowing with class and they deserve all the success they achieve.

Wow,

Geoffrey

What do you guys think ???

One of the kids from my guard program is a "rook-out" at Crown this year. One of the best parts of my summer so far has been hearing her absolutely GUSH about how much she loves marching there. She LOVES the show and how fun it is to perform, went on and on about how the staff is demanding while showing how much they care about the kids, said she's never left a meal feeling like she wanted more, and best of all......they have SWEET TEA every night for dinner. She got visibly upset when we talked about this being her only summer......she's SO glad she spent it there, and sad that she doesn't have more summers to be on the field with them. Heck......I was sold when she told me it was WAY worth dying her hair black........for a fellow redhead, that's saying A LOT!!

[salad315]

Now hang on a minute. Listen to yourself. You mention C and D Major for G bugles. Do you know that those keys correspond to Eb and F on Bb horns? (The subdominant and dominant of the horn.)

Band pieces are almost always in Bb, Eb or F. Drum corps are now usually in Bb, Eb or F. Drum corps today have warmups/tuning exercises in Bb, Eb and F.

G Bugles are a THIRD LOWER than Bb horns. That pattern is exactly the same. Therefore, G Bugle hornlines sound lower to me.

The "order of Keys" from lowest to highest would be:

G, Bb, C, D, Eb, F

For you to think today's hornlines sound lower, would impply that you think hornlines always played in concert C or D before, and only in concert Bb today! And ya know, maybe you're right, especially if you like Crown this year!

Ok....yes I get that C and D are easy on G bugles....thats why corps played in them. I also get that G bugles are a third lower (but only a minor third) lower than Bb horns (duh). And even though I was trying to imply that some of the keys of today are lower (which some are), Key signature doesnt have all that much to do with range (or at least...it doesnt have to). You can arrange a chords just about however you want to in just about any key. Going back to what we were both saying about brass instruments earlier...some notes speak better, and some notes are more in tune within a chord than others, but obviously a chord can be voiced high or low regardless of the key. I just happened to march around the Bb switch era, and from experience....songs that were rearranged went G to F, not up to Bb. Songs in D usually did go to Eb, and pieces in C went down to Bb. Hardly conclusive by any means, but thats just my experience on a few pieces.

As far as your 'order of keys from lowest to highest', how does that make any sense at all?? I could start that pattern anywhere, and based on the skill of the hornline, it would be realistic. I dont see how you can ascertain a linear scale from something that is essentially circular. For instance, I'd rather put Bb at the bottom, as it is the lowest note most Bb tubas could play with a good sound (low G's and F's are near impossible to get a good sound on). Then again, maybe Bb should be the highest, since most baris and trumpets (in an average line) can hit that high Bb ©....ok maybe not so much in the baris. I guess im just pointing out that while Key does have an effect, its not really a high / low thing...and if it is, its more the arranger than the key in any case...

[84BDsop]

Is this really true? The famous BD warmup in the days of the G bugle was known as the "F Tuning Sequence".

Well...the first NOTE was always an F....I don't know that the KEY was F, tho.

[84BDsop]

Unfortunately, very few corps actually take full advantage of this, except for the elite.

Shouldn't it be abolut whatever key is most effective to play in? Making the corps play in trhe key of Z# minor just because it's esoteric and artsy doesn't seem like a good choice for the members....WAY too egotistic.

When SoCal Dream's closer in 05 was rearranged for 06, the reason for the key change was so all the loud impacts would be on open fingerings, thus removing the valves getting inthe way of air flow.

it was a pain to have to relearn my part (especially since 05 was a bit easier in some places finger-wise) but it was certainly effective.

You can play highly technical and difficult stuff in any key with any number of valves (Star 90-91 anyone?)...what's the point of making the kids work harder than they aready are and put out a show that is more difficult to perform well?

I loved it when the 3rd valve came out, because I would be able to arrange without having to worry about those missing 4 notes.