Is narration dead now?

[Dale Bari]

Hey - we're being very obliging in making you Yanks look really good at the Olympics right now!

Well, isn't that the wingman's job? Make the flight leader look good? Way to take those arrows, guys!

The language one speaks is irrelevant for this discussion, as English is the lingua franca of the world. (Business around the world nowadays is conducted in English - much like how diplomacy used to be conducted entirely in French.)

However, madscout's(?) point is that as soon as spoken words are used, the meaning of the work changes. His particular point about ballet is spot on. Even in the world of opera, with singing and some dialog, people (esp Americans) don't really listen to the arias' words (written in German, Italian, French, etc), or understand the complete meaning of the words - the beauty and tone of the music conveys the meaning. I don't understand a word of the aria "Un bel di" yet I still get what it means, the anguish and sorrow, and the longing for "one fine day" in the future.

Wordless productions always come across better to a wide audience, because they are liberated from the "tyranny" of the words that "impose" meaning. Take the words away from Cadets' 2008 show, and we are all free to imbue it with whatever meaning (or even make it "meaning-free") we wish. That eliminates any and all griping that was heard. (Like with the 2007 program, almost every single spectator raved about the quality of the non-verbal portions of the show.) Of course, that requires that whatever meaning the show's creators intended was wiped away - but that's kind of irrelevant, as most artists' works have been "re-intepreted" by viewers through the years.

The greatest art inspires us because not every "t" is crossed and "i" is dotted for us. The vagueness (slight or not) allows everyone to put his own "spin" on the art, to cause us to imagine it in our own way. The very ambiguity in the Mona Lisa's smile stokes our imaginations, thereby making it arguably the most famous painting of all time. If Da Vinci had put a caption on it to tell us exactly what we were supposed to think about it, that effect would probably be lost.

Putting narration to drum corps, to me, is like Da Vinci putting a caption on the Mona Lisa, it diminishes the work that went into creating it. The painting was intended to be the meaning.

Don't tell me what to feel when I'm watching a drum corps show, show me. If your design is good, and the kids go a good job with it, I'll get it anyways. As a famous artist once said (I think it was Toulouse-Lautrec), "I don't paint the table. I paint the feeling I get from the table." (I'm paraphrasing, but that's the essence.) He means that the painting is not literally (note that word) about the table - it is about the feeling the table invokes.

Edited August 15, 2008 by Dale Bari

[Galen]

Does it go to any state with a significant Hispanic population?

Yep- Texas, Cali, New Mexico, Arizona, to name a few.

[Dale Bari]

The one thing I would like to throw out there (and not in an attempt to get others to be on my side of the issue, 'cause I know that ain't gonna happen) is that narration, and the show design that comes with it, has and continues to drive fans away from buying tickets. Would the same happen to those in favor of narration if it suddenly went away?

Some of the "extreme" pro-narration folks here have explicitly said that they would continue going to DCI shows if narration went bye-bye. They liked DCI well enough pre-amps, such that none of them were complaining, "You know, DCI would be so much better if they allowed amped talking."

[kusankusho]

Well, isn't that the wingman's job? Make the flight leader look good? Way to take those arrows, guys!

Just trying to be a good neighbour!

The greatest art inspires us because not every "t" is crossed and "i" is dotted for us. The vagueness (slight or not) allows everyone to put his own "spin" on the art, to cause us to imagine it in our own way. The very ambiguity in the Mona Lisa's smile stokes our imaginations, thereby making it arguably the most famous painting of all time. If Da Vinci had put a caption on it to tell us exactly what we were supposed to think about it, that effect would probably be lost.

Exactly right! It's rather poor writing just to say "John felt sad" - far better to say "John looked out onto the rain soaked street and breathed a heavy sigh" - you still know he's sad, but you came to that realization yourself. You become a participant in the scene. It took a little more imagination and a few more words, but it has a far grater effect.

Narration "dumbs down" drum corps.

Edited August 15, 2008 by kusankusho

[MikeD]

didn't BD take Yowza on the road to Europe?

Yes, which is why I said 'DCI Tour' and not an individual corps making a choice to visit Europe.

[MikeD]

Does it go to any state with a significant Hispanic population?

There are DCI corps in Canada. We had a couple of Open class shows here so yes Mike - the DCI tour goes through Canada.

OK...the World Class DCI tour does not go to Canada.

Why does it matter if there are shows in the US where there are a lot of Hispanics?

[2000Cadet]

Just trying to be a good neighbour!

Exactly right! It's rather poor writing just to say "John felt sad" - far better to say "John looked out onto the rain soaked street and breathed a heavy sigh" - you still know he's sad, but you came to that realization yourself. You become a participant in the scene. It took a little more imagination and a few more words, but it has a far grater effect.

Narration "dumbs down" drum corps.

Wow, I really felt John's pain.

[byline]

The DCI tour doesn't even go to Canada, so IMO that's a bogus issue.

No French Canadians will ever want to travel to a DCI show or buy the DVDs or CDs? At this rate, they may not want to. . . .

I agree with earlier posters who make note of how music is a universal language . . . or, at least, a language with universality among particular groups (I'm not sure a tribe in some remote would enjoy a Mozart symphony . . . and Mozart might not have cared much for their music, either). Even if we get past the whole issue of English as a first language, there's still the limitation that putting a specific narrative into a show brings. It's the same kind of complaint -- and it's a valid one, I think -- that people have about music videos. It used to be that when you heard a song, you could imagine it in whatever way you chose. But, with scripted music videos, now you have a specific interpretation of those songs laid out visually over the music. Which then limits what one can take away from that music.

Of course, as with narration, one can choose to listen only to the music and try to ignore the video. But, given the way things are imprinted in our minds, that's pretty difficult to do.

[kusankusho]

OK...the World Class DCI tour does not go to Canada.

And that's an important distinction because???

Why does it matter if there are shows in the US where there are a lot of Hispanics?

We were discussing language barriers, if you can remember back that far, Mike. You have a few in your own country as well, not just a Canadian thing.

[MikeD]

And that's an important distinction because???

We were discussing language barriers, if you can remember back that far, Mike. You have a few in your own country as well, not just a Canadian thing.

Why does it matter as it relates to creating a show? There are lots of Asians here as well. But the predominant language of the US is English, American-style English anyway.

That, IMO, is just a bogus argument abuot using narration or not. You don't like it...fine. But this is (again, IMO) really stretching to come up with an excuse to not use it.