Judges interviews from Quarterfinals

[blueorginal]

Well I can say I thought the Judges interviewed didn't give a high representation of the level of their expertise.... I think its one of the things wrong with the relationship between the judges and the corps and audience.... the issue I think is that drum corps as a whole is like a big fraturnity, and the people judges included when interviewed treat it as a buddy to buddy hahaha nudge nudge well you know type thing but to the outside viewers it comes off as unprofessional and leaves one wondering as to how qualified they are..... its a perspective.... so I think the original poster had a good oberservation

[Jared_mello]

wish i got a chance to see it.

[Ben]

They were vamping, really trying to stretch it out. And when you ask vague questions, you get vague answers. At least they didn't pull a Miss South Carolina.

[gottalovit]

If Carolina Crown or Cavaliers had won, would you ask for the same clarification?

Actually yes.

The only corps I saw deserving of the win this year was Blue Devils. Their performance was much better than Cavaliers and Crown.

Thursday night, the night of the interviews they actually had the top 4 in the right order. Actually they had most of the top 12 right, minus a couple of placements in the 8-10 range.

The thing I am getting at, is they were proving the incompetency of the judging system itself. The inconsistencies are just staggering this year more than others even. Take a look at scores across the board, all year long. The spreads have been all over the place. Both in world class and open class. So either the judges are inconsistent, or they don't understand the criteria for judging.

Yes, some corps are going to have off nights. But that shouldn't lower a score more than 3-4 tenths of a point, unless it is something major, and that would probably be noticeable to alot of the people in the audience, and brought up here on the boards on the occasion that it did.

Read the boards from this year. This is the first year I have heard screaming for the firing of a judge. People are finally starting to track and notice some of the judging inconsistencies.

Another comment on the boards that completely drives me nuts is this.

A corps who places 5th or lower can't win a caption award. I have seen it countless times. The problem is, when that corps goes on, how does the judge from that caption know where that corps is going to place when there are still more corps to go on that night? That's just it, he/she DOES know. So how would you justify giving Bluecoats a 10 in percussion, if there are still 6 more corps competing that evening(that's an example, I am not saying Coats should have had a 10 in drums this year) If the Coats have the percussion section to do it, they should be awarded that perfect 10. If another corps performing later has a 10 as well, so be it. But each corps should receive the marks they earned, regardless of other corps performing. For example, let's say Spirit's brass is amazing and should be scoring a 9.8 or a 9.9 from the judge. They are seeded 15th coming in. Do you really think one of the judges is going to award them that score with 14 more corps to perform? NO

Alot of people may disagree with me, but I honestly feel that caption awards should be given based on quarterfinals performances. Every corps performing should be able to win a caption award, regardless of whether or not they are in the top 12 corps. Granted, the top corps usually have the best hornlines, colorguards and drumlines, as well as show design. But occasionally you might just have a corps that happens to have one exceptional section, but the corps just isn't good enough overall to make the cut.

Bottom line, the judges don't make the call, the call is already made for them. DCI, although a non-profit, still has to be run like a business, just like any corps does. So, the judges when actually asked questions, can't answer them because they simply don't understand the way judging should be done, were they actually doing it the way it was supposed to be done according to the sheets that DCI sets forth.

[audiodb]

Ok, I thought it was great that they interviewed the judges during the theatre broadcast on Thursday. After watching it, I was very surprised that DCI would even allow something like that. Did anybody notice how dumb and inconsistent these judges looked and sounded?

When asked about different things, and how the judges were compared to each other, their answers were vague and distorted.

And not one of them knew the first thing about judging. Not one of them knew the key word-CRITERIA. Not one judge uttered this word. Not one judge mentioned the criteria that is set for judging, and then how the judges react/acknowledge the performance as far as the judges sheets go-based on this criteria.

So because no one used the word "criteria" in one particular interview, they're all stupid?

You'll have to help me out here, because I did not see the theatre broadcast (I was at the show). But unless this interview spanned the entire intermission, I can't imagine how there would be time for an explanation of judging criteria.

[Top Cat]

Actually yes.

The only corps I saw deserving of the win this year was Blue Devils. Their performance was much better than Cavaliers and Crown.

Thursday night, the night of the interviews they actually had the top 4 in the right order. Actually they had most of the top 12 right, minus a couple of placements in the 8-10 range.

The thing I am getting at, is they were proving the incompetency of the judging system itself. The inconsistencies are just staggering this year more than others even. Take a look at scores across the board, all year long. The spreads have been all over the place. Both in world class and open class. So either the judges are inconsistent, or they don't understand the criteria for judging.

Yes, some corps are going to have off nights. But that shouldn't lower a score more than 3-4 tenths of a point, unless it is something major, and that would probably be noticeable to alot of the people in the audience, and brought up here on the boards on the occasion that it did.

Read the boards from this year. This is the first year I have heard screaming for the firing of a judge. People are finally starting to track and notice some of the judging inconsistencies.

Another comment on the boards that completely drives me nuts is this.

A corps who places 5th or lower can't win a caption award. I have seen it countless times. The problem is, when that corps goes on, how does the judge from that caption know where that corps is going to place when there are still more corps to go on that night? That's just it, he/she DOES know. So how would you justify giving Bluecoats a 10 in percussion, if there are still 6 more corps competing that evening(that's an example, I am not saying Coats should have had a 10 in drums this year) If the Coats have the percussion section to do it, they should be awarded that perfect 10. If another corps performing later has a 10 as well, so be it. But each corps should receive the marks they earned, regardless of other corps performing. For example, let's say Spirit's brass is amazing and should be scoring a 9.8 or a 9.9 from the judge. They are seeded 15th coming in. Do you really think one of the judges is going to award them that score with 14 more corps to perform? NO

Alot of people may disagree with me, but I honestly feel that caption awards should be given based on quarterfinals performances. Every corps performing should be able to win a caption award, regardless of whether or not they are in the top 12 corps. Granted, the top corps usually have the best hornlines, colorguards and drumlines, as well as show design. But occasionally you might just have a corps that happens to have one exceptional section, but the corps just isn't good enough overall to make the cut.

Bottom line, the judges don't make the call, the call is already made for them. DCI, although a non-profit, still has to be run like a business, just like any corps does. So, the judges when actually asked questions, can't answer them because they simply don't understand the way judging should be done, were they actually doing it the way it was supposed to be done according to the sheets that DCI sets forth.

Man do you have an ax to grind or what?????

Maybe you are a "judge" maybe not - couldn't care less but unless you have been a DCI judge at the Championships, you haven't got a clue as to what the thought patterns and pressures are.

1. The "interviewed" judges during the broadcast were not even the judges doing the show that night. Those were clips from earlier in the season.

2. What is so bad about a little "inconsistency" in scoring. If each judge gave the same numbers each night ----- WHY HAVE A CONTEST????? Just do it once and everyone can go home and cook burgers.

3. Variety is good in scores, in tape commentary, in discussions at critiques. ITS PART OF THE ACTIVITY> Learn to live with it.

4. Now, quit being a smart a-- and be part of the program. If you think you have better judging skills than everyone else, contact John Phillips to request being a DCI judge. Then YOU can correct all of YOUR percieved problems with the system.

[BigSnareline]

CRITERIA!

[fecontra]

Those judges did just fine, what are they supposed to say

They were filling time, and also were being interviewed by the totally hillarious Delucia.

Too many people just can't accept what is the end result.

At least the conspiracy theorists will have many off season topics!

[Peel Paint]

Man do you have an ax to grind or what?????

Maybe you are a "judge" maybe not - couldn't care less but unless you have been a DCI judge at the Championships, you haven't got a clue as to what the thought patterns and pressures are.

1. The "interviewed" judges during the broadcast were not even the judges doing the show that night. Those were clips from earlier in the season.

2. What is so bad about a little "inconsistency" in scoring. If each judge gave the same numbers each night ----- WHY HAVE A CONTEST????? Just do it once and everyone can go home and cook burgers.

3. Variety is good in scores, in tape commentary, in discussions at critiques. ITS PART OF THE ACTIVITY> Learn to live with it.

4. Now, quit being a smart a-- and be part of the program. If you think you have better judging skills than everyone else, contact John Phillips to request being a DCI judge. Then YOU can correct all of YOUR percieved problems with the system.

Right on.

I don't know about OP, and what follows may not apply to the OP, but some people just aren't going to be happy unless the scores exactly match their perceptions. What it really comes down to is they wanted to be the judge, the sole determinant of final placements.

You're never going to have perfection in judging artistic endeavors. It doesn't mean you can't try to make it better, but you have to work globally. It shouldn't be: "This show was scored wrong." It should be: "Here's a better way to score shows." It's way harder than it looks, even just writing the judging criteria.

But even when you make it better, and DCI judging is surely better than it was in earlier years IMO (OK, so I've drunk from the Kool Aid well, I know, I know), there is always going to be some subjectivity and some room for argument. When you've got four corps within about a point, let alone two corps within a tenth of a point, folks, it's a tossup and there is some luck and yes, probably politics and other factors involved that shouldn't enter into judging but do because it is a HUMAN and inherently imperfect endeavor. Don't you think most corps members understand that?

[bluecoats88]

A corps who places 5th or lower can't win a caption award. I have seen it countless times. The problem is, when that corps goes on, how does the judge from that caption know where that corps is going to place when there are still more corps to go on that night? That's just it, he/she DOES know. So how would you justify giving Bluecoats a 10 in percussion, if there are still 6 more corps competing that evening(that's an example, I am not saying Coats should have had a 10 in drums this year) If the Coats have the percussion section to do it, they should be awarded that perfect 10. If another corps performing later has a 10 as well, so be it. But each corps should receive the marks they earned, regardless of other corps performing. For example, let's say Spirit's brass is amazing and should be scoring a 9.8 or a 9.9 from the judge. They are seeded 15th coming in. Do you really think one of the judges is going to award them that score with 14 more corps to perform?

I'm just going to comment on this section of your rant.

If say Spirit's hornlilne is phenominal and deserves a box 5 number then I think the judge should give them a box 5 number even though there are 14 more corps to perform but for safety's sake the judge does need to leave room for the other corps to be better, so he may only give them a 9.0 so that he can squeeze in the other corps. And at the end of the season he should be aware of the fact that Spirit has had a good horn line all year and would expect them to be beating some or most of the corps following them. So even if he gives them a little lower score he should be confident that he can fit others above them. Now the next thing is the key. If none of the other corps that follow them have as good a brass line then that judge should mark those corps below the number he gave spirit and not just screw spirit because he gave them too low a score not realizing they would be the best in his caption. This is the key thing that needs to happen and which probably doesn't.