Cadets Classy Retreat

[The Other Mike]

Who knows but I would love to know what kind words Hoppy had for this young man. As much as I rag on Hoppy my bet is he handled it properly.

Agreed and as another one who rags on the bourgs and Kool Aid drinkers, Hopkins gets much respect from me in this matter. I would also love to know what he said but no matter what, he handled it much better than I would have.

Had I been the Cadets member, I'm not sure I would'nt have stood on the Cavies fingers, but I'm a low class really old school sort of moron.

Atta boy Hopkins

[Bob J]

Even "back in the day" different corps have always handled retreat differently. We (Freelancers) and Santa Clara were both pretty serious about retreat, while Blue Devils took things more casually. Velvet Knights kind of took things to the extreme with the lawn chairs and all, but they still respected the corps around them. I was kind of shocked my first finals retreat as all the corps lined up "olympic style" (single files next to each other) and we were between Cavaliers and 27th Lancers, and some of the members were smoking in uniform! Not the kind of behavior that was expected of us, but not disrespecful to the other corps.

Nobody broke ranks in those days, and we all knew the rules of behavior at retreat. Then again, we had retreat for all but a handful of shows back then, and members marched for the same corps year after year for the most part, so identity and tradition was learned and passed on to the rookies.

[Kekkles]

Agreed and as another one who rags on the bourgs and Kool Aid drinkers, Hopkins gets much respect from me in this matter. I would also love to know what he said but no matter what, he handled it much better than I would have.

Had I been the Cadets member, I'm not sure I would'nt have stood on the Cavies fingers, but I'm a low class really old school sort of moron.

Atta boy Hopkins

that's better than me. had i been that cadet i would have told the cavalier to get out, given him three seconds, and then kicked him in the mouth.

Edited August 13, 2008 by Kekkles

[The Other Mike]

wow, a thread where most people are saying nice things about Hopkins ?

It's the end of the world ?

[The Other Mike]

that's better than me. had i been that cadet i would have told the cavalier to get out, given him three seconds, and then kicked him in the mouth.

Well, I figure kicking him would be seen from the stands and it's the old line that the second person to act gets the penelty. Being the fat ### that I am, standing on his hands would cause great pain and people would see him squirming around. ( then I would have most likely gotten my ### beat )

[mikekhs]

I think doing the right thing always wins out in the end.

I would however pay money to know what Mr. Hopkins said to him.

MIKE

[byline]

Well, yes, some of us have a lot more figured out in our lives by now. One thing I figured out was that being disciplined and respectful at all times in uniform helped me know when to keep my mouth shut and when not to, how and when to show joy appropriately, personal restraint in tough situations, and a heck of a lot more.

Retreat discipline is not about being bad-a##. It just comes off that way. It's about honoring a long and storied tradition that came out of military roots, it's about honoring your paying audience, it's about paying homage to the thousands of others who have stood on that field before you. And when there's only a handful of retreats every year, I expect even MORE discipline at finals than everywhere else. It's really not a time for the kids to let off steam. That's just what it's become because we've allowed some of those kids to lose touch with why we do it in the first place.

This post does such a good job of articulating my thoughts. It's very easy to complain about the erosion of values, standards, civil society, whatever you want to call it, and be derided as an oldtimer for not understanding kids of today. (Gee, how long has that been going on?)

But Terri is absolutely correct. Of course, young people will be young people. I did stupid things, we all did. The point of being trained in specific standards of discipline while in uniform (and that includes retreat) is that hopefully that training overrides any errant "Wouldn't it be hilarious if I did this?" ideas that may come into one's mind while in uniform. Seasons were long and hard then too, and we were just as susceptible to wanting to blow off steam as corps members are today. But we were trained to think in terms of our actions reflecting on our group, not to think solely in terms of ourselves. So I know that any funny ideas I might have had were trumped by my fear of getting caught, and the consequences that would come with it. Of course, as time went by, there was a certain amount of pride in being able to control myself to the point that I knew my actions would reflect well on my corps, thanks to that training. But even though we all had the same training, everyone had to buy in to the philosophy for it to work. Because, as we've seen in this thread, all it takes is one or two bad apples (Lord, I sound so old!) to spoil the bunch. That is precisely why we were trained as we were, because people with way more life experience than I had saw the wisdom of that. That doesn't mean we were reduced to blindly unquestioning automatons. Far from it. We just knew that as soon as that uniform went on, there were certain standards -- pride and respect of history, the uniform, the flag, our corps' traditions, other corps' traditions, drum corps tradition in general, etc. -- we were expected to uphold. And, for the most part, we did.

I do agree with those who note that once retreat was done away with as a regular bookend of every contest, it stood to reason that individuals would forget the decorum that was supposed to go along with it. But I really don't believe that excuses a lot of the behavior being discussed in this thread, because that's what staff members are there for, to make sure that the people they're responsible for are behaving the way they should

Also, just to add my voice to the chorus, I too have often criticized George Hopkins for a number of initiatives that he's pushed. But there's no doubt in my mind that he was in the right on this, and so for that I salute him, and also the Cadets for upholding the time-honored drum corps tradition of self-discipline.

Edited August 13, 2008 by byline

[monoemono]

Just a few things that you start to notice after 30+ years. And when you try to explain some of these points to new teachers they think you're nuts until they have a year or two under them, then they wonder why they didn't teach them that in Ed 101.

It is amazing how little time is spent on this more 'practical' knowledge.

[The Other Mike]

It is amazing how little time is spent on this more 'practical' knowledge.

Nor do they teach much about "how" to be a band director. Heck almost anyonewith a few years of private lessons can teach music, but how many can actually run the business of band ? Few teachers are in the position of having students for several years ( or in my case 13 years). There is much much more to being a good band director than being able to have a band play in tune etc.

I learned more about being a director in drum corps than I ever learned in college.

Thank God for drum corps and how it changed my life. ( even if it was in the stone age )

[byline]

I learned more about being a director in drum corps than I ever learned in college.

Honestly, I think that's true for any discipline or profession. I majored in music and journalism, and actually working in journalism is a far different experience from what I was taught. Basically, we're given the nuts and bolts. It's up to us to use those tools and keep right on learning from our "real world" experiences.