Colts 08 ... Better than Madison?

[Scerpella]

shows were very close.

Madison had good drill very very poor guard. Good GE music

Madisons and Colts guard was .2 apart. Crossmen, though 4 places up, were only .4 tenths up.

Wouldnt seem as bad a guard as you beleive.

[corps-mudgeon]

I think he did it so the timp player had time to retune.

Thanks, I wish I had heard this explanation before. I really enjoyed the Colts show and thought it was strange how they worked that drum major bow in. Sounds pretty legit when explained this way.

[Widge]

I was a DCI groupie the last week of the season, and attended Buffalo, Toledo and all three shows in Bloomington. The placings for the 3 corps in question were exactly right in my opinion.

While the Colts really kicked it up a notch at quarterfinals, and were a great corps to watch, they suffered from lack of difficulty in drill and book compared to the Xmen and Scouts.

I get the feeling that this is a corps with a lot of talent and are capable of doing more that they were given to do in their show this year.

Edited August 11, 2008 by Widge

[Jared_mello]

Hi luvinmydummin,

Welcome to posting on DCP. This is definitely a place where if you ask for opinions, you will get them. Many posters have given you really good, non-offensive answers to your questions. As several have mentioned, strong associations with a group make it extremely difficult to be 100% subjective, certainly if you are fairly new or young to the activity.

I too preferred Madison over Colts & Crossmen. This changed over the summer. Early on I thought Colts to be demonstrating the most maturity and polish in their performances. There were some show issues that I feared would hurt them in Bloomington. Usually, more mature groups handle change the best. I thought changes would be made that would elevate the "what" and Colts would be in finals again with a fun, accessible show. The show changes to me made no difference or little difference. This doesn't mean the staff made uninformed or under-developed choices necessarily. I am sure they are very talented and well-intended. Phantom, BD, and Cavies staff members would tell you that they are too often get too close to their groups, or the activities current taste to know with 100% certainty that their changes are all going to work as intended. As with anything, experience in these areas typically up the success factor.

MANY years in DCI year past, you would have made finals. Too many great groups, and several that would have done anything to be in, including Colts.

So, I really liked Colts. VERY solid show. Lots of fun and recognizable music. The concept was easy to follow. Very well done. Preferred them emotionally to several finalists. Artistically, not as much. Don't look for any specific thing or person for 100% fault of what didn't happen; it isn't that easy and such can mess with your view of your experience. Though my perspective will be different than others, you may notice a trend of repeated dislikes.

Here is what I thought could have been improved:

The original opening was one of my favorite parts of the show, the changed version was too under-developed.

Opening guard soloist was conceptually too campy and very old school for me. Old school influence in a NEW way is great. This just seemed silly to me.

Following guard soloists, same reaction. Not the performers, just the concept. Reminded me of 1980s Dutch Boy years with big hair and Vegas.

Length of standing and playing hurt flow and forward direction of the show.

Swing got better by the brass, but still didn't sell. It is hard, but great when it works. Its is why corps do little to none of it anymore.

Though symmetrical drill is great and can be very effective, there seemed to be too much in this particular show, especially with how the guard was staged.

Not enough surprises. To much predictability.

Guard uni was also too old school and the guard guys should have worn something else.

Perc. book and horn book didn't aways seem to gel.

What I would not have changed:

Impacts were very solid and almost always appropriately supported by the guard.

Music selections were great.

Show theme was well chosen and easy to follow.

Forms and intervals were pretty clean.

Much of the drill was very well constructed from an engineering stand point, with some good GE moments.

Communication and showmanship were strong compared to your surrounding groups.

Drum major was very good.

Ballad was very musical and emotional.

Corps uniform looks great and always well tailored. (Not a cop-out comment. Many corps look ragged).

Pride seems to leap off of the field.

best response of the thread so far. i was rooting for the colts because i really like them as an organization, but understood why they didn't make finals this year. im sure their experience this summer wasn't hampered by not making the top 12....that's not what being a colt is about, and it's evident in any conversation with any of their members.

just a general question, i was curious; clearly the colts show this year was very old school in many different ways. what specific year do you think their show fits in/is most derivative of? i could actually see it being performed in 1993ish, actually. reminded me a bit of freelancers 1992, and the red uniforms only added to that sentiment.

[Jared_mello]

wow. that was some first post.

fail.

he probably made the mistake of assuming dcp was a place for people to post their opinions about drum corps, and get other opinions, opposing or in agreement, from other people who care about the activity.

thanks for being the super cool guy who made sure that he learned the error of his ways, and won't do anything like "state his viewpoint" again. glad we have an internet enforcer on here making sure the bandwidth doesn't get polluted by people's thoughts or anything. i know he expressed his thoughts in terms of absolutes and assumed that crowd reaction has anything to do with scoring, but it was his first post.....at least he was open to people's dissenting opinions. many people don't want to read posts that include opposing responses.

i'd recommend he try using a different username though. i think there's an "r" in 'drummin.'

Edited August 11, 2008 by Jared_mello

[DrumCorpsMom]

This was the best Colts show I have seen. It was just not as clean as Crossmen or Madison

[BariFleur]

I'll just make this short and sweet. After following the progress of the summer I came to love the Colts "Night and Day" show (this wasn't my favorite show of the summer but it was up there) and I feel as though DCI chose the wrong corps to perform on Saturday. The Scouts show wasn't nearly as entertaining or as powerful as the Colts show. I know there is another topic out there about corps that got cheated and this might belong there but I don't understand how a corps that got 3 standing ovations during semifinals wasn't a part of the top 12 this summer.

If you feel like I do put it here so those kids who put on the Colts uniforms know the drum corps community feels strongly about there show.

Or if you I am wrong maybe someone could explain to me the error in my judgement.

Seeing both corps perform back to back in the early season allowed me to directly compare on the same night and throughout the season. First, Colts - They sounded great and were able to portray key moments to the crowd, but I saw very little demand in the drill. Also, the show had room for growth (which was achieved ), but wasn't enough earn a finals spot. In other words, if said show, as written, is a 7 and you start at a 3 and then achieve the 7 later on, there's room for the Corps that had a show of 8, started at a 2 then achieved the 8 in the end.

Second, Madison - Very, very shaky start. With many new guys, a guard that had to fight for every tenth, and basically revamped design staff, there were challenges and successes. Drill demand and the execution of the respective drill isn't a question. Scouts had the harder drill book. However, the Colts performed their drill better than Scouts starting off while pulling ahead later on. Musically, Colts seemed more solid than Scouts in respect to the books of each corps at start. In the final week, the Scouts music program pulled and stayed ahead of Colts.

Check the historical score data, Scouts started with a 61.500, whereas Colts started with a 64.500.

Not a knock on the Colts, they have a lot going for them and are entertaining. But, IMO, the Scouts were the better corps in 2008.

[2ndSop4Life]

...but I don't understand how a corps that got 3 standing ovations during semifinals wasn't a part of the top 12 this summer.

As opposed to a corps who got a stand ovation as it was taking the field...

But yes, their show was good. So was Crossmen's and Madison's. I don't see how a corps in 14th could jump BOTH Crossmen and Madison after getting beat by both for the entire second half of the season.

I mean, I didn't even expect Madison to jump Crossmen, let alone the Cots.

[ColtsMelloDad]

Thanks, I wish I had heard this explanation before. I really enjoyed the Colts show and thought it was strange how they worked that drum major bow in. Sounds pretty legit when explained this way.

When I first saw the DM bow move early in the season, I wondered about it. I also saw lots comments about it

in these forums. After the show in K-zoo I mentioned this to my son and he said they did it to give the other DM

time to move from backfield to the front.

[Tom Brace]

wow. that was some first post.

fail.

I can't believe more folks can't spot the obvious troll.

First post. Never posts again in the thread