New Additions to DCA?

[MoonHill]

The 35 minimum does one thing, eliminates corps with less than 35 members (not including drum major, honor guard, support staff) from the competition field. Even at the regional level.

Competition field? Yep, thanks for elucidating what others have been saying for the last several weeks.

Performance field? Nope.

It has the potential to eliminate every current Class A corps from competition.

It also has the potential to eliminate every current Open Class corps from competition. It has the potential to destroy all of DCA as we know it.

The 120(or whatever, I forget the actual number) maximum rule has this exact same potential. Also, the "bell-front brass instrument" rule has the exact same potential. The "must pay entry fee" rule also has this same potential.

Given the right set of worst-case-scenario factors, every DQ rule has the potential to eliminate any or every corps from competition.

I fail to see the good in that. And in practice it's pretty lame to be doing everything that everyone else is doing, just to feel like your not even part of the game.

Yeah, it's lame to be a part of a corps whose staff thinks getting to nationals is the end-all, be-all of existence, and will risk everything on a shot at doing so, only to watch the group collapse in on itself financially in the attempt.

You stated before that you had not been given any examples? The Los Angeles Conquistadors. They managed to cave themselves in with nothing more than a regional tour. And DCA plans were in the works, if "plans" is the right word to use for pie-in-the-sky dreams with no financial backing. And competition was never an issue, what with the corps only having a dozen members at its height.

Is every corps with less than 35 members going to go that route? Most likely, no. Not every one. But the rule exists to make the possibility a non-issue to begin with. And if you could be bothered to see why it exists, then you might have a much better chance of getting it changed.

Not that changing it is apparently all that important to you. It would seem that complaining about it, not changing it, is your priority. In which case I suppose it serves your purposes to leave the rule as-is, or perhaps even make it more restrictive. That way, you get to keep complaining. And we have always been at war with Eurasia.

[Jeff Ream]

Technically it's not my cause. I'm not even planning on marching next season anyway. And if I truly needed to compete I could just as easily add the 10,000 miles to my vehicle and add $800+ in gas to march one of the other corps in my area. But I can't record the shows and be in the show. So I guess my marching days are done. As I scope out an HD camera to use next season, and sell off a few assets to pay for it.

The 35 minimum does one thing, eliminates corps with less than 35 members (not including drum major, honor guard, support staff) from the competition field. Even at the regional level. It has the potential to eliminate every current Class A corps from competition. I fail to see the good in that. And in practice it's pretty lame to be doing everything that everyone else is doing, just to feel like your not even part of the game.

seems like a lot of other corps did what was needed to make it happen, but if you admitted reality it'd kill your argument

[Jeff Ream]

And everybody and their brother and cousin has told you what steps to take to make a difference. I even tried doing it FOR you, and still nothing satisfies you. Now you make it sound like something you've been yelling about so passionately isn't even worth your time anymore. Sounds like the old "I'm not getting what I want, so I'm taking my toys and going home" kind of approach. If you were really upset by the rule and actually gave enough of a #### to make a difference, you contact either A.) a DCA official or B.) your corps director and get all the pertinent information needed to draft up a rule change proposal. Then, you could invest even a fraction of the time you spend whining on DCP typing up and proofreading said proposal. Finally, take said proposal to your corps director and ask them to have it presented for discussion at the upcoming rule congress.

But I suppose it's just easier to sit at your computer and ##### about how the world isn't fair, and DCA hates little corps and Hurricane Ernesto was created in somebody's basement in Rochester just to foil your prelims pictures, and so on, and so forth...

I swear sometimes you only post just so you can have the last say, whether it makes a half an ounce of difference or not.

and for the record, his last say does nothing to help him get his way.

[Jeff Ream]

Shadow,

A question if I may. You were with Shore in 98 right? Were you this uptight when the "mini corps" took the street with 50 some members? I mean, was the mini corps thing hurting Westshore by only allowing them 21 members? Did Westshore get screwed for breaking the rules or denied the opportunity to perform?

well they did get a large penalty for breaking the rules. Which in fact started a slow process to eliminate "mini corps" over 21 members.

And that performance was supposed to be the big re-launch right? gee you were there but didn't even come back for 99 did you? Shame, if you had with all of your knowledge on what's good, they could have won class .

see where I am going? you talk a great talk. But as pointed out by Sayre, myself, Moon Hill and others, that's all you do....talk. And now, instead of fighting for this cause you have fought for so passionately all year, you're just walking away.

Don't tell DCA what's wrong with it. Look in a mirror and find what's wrong with you.

Edited September 25, 2008 by jeffsnewjetta

[Shadow_7]

Well in '98, I didn't even bother to pursue the minicorps route. I had just gotten out of the Army Band and was not all that into it as I could have been.

I tend towards my weaknesses. i.e. I'm not gonna pretend to be the best Tuba, Mellophone, Trumpet, Audiologist, Vidoegrapher in the business, being a Euphonium player by choice. But there exists a need for such attributes, and I tend towards those ends, at great personal expense, even without the respect, adoration, or even support of DCA. DCA seems to be more about creating voids than performance outlets. As Rich Moon has implied, many of the rules have the potential to eliminate all competitiors. And somehow this is good? If there exists a 300 members corps with a field show, I think I'd like to see that at DCA. But according to current rules, not a chance in hell. If future corps took it to the field I think I'd like to see that at DCA. But according to current rules, not a chance in hell. If I front $10K+ in equipment for my local corps, I think I'd like to see that at DCA, but according to current rules, not a chance in hell. And yet somehow this is good for the activity?

AFAIK, no corps runs a "profit" by doing DCA. So why completely ignore / deny them access to it? Granted that only so much can happen in a single weekend. But AFAIK, that limit has yet to be exceeded. Maybe with delays and other issues, it has. But in terms of a well managed situation, it has yet to exceed unmanageability. Not that it wont, but I think we're still a few years / decades away from that.

[Shadow_7]

And that performance was supposed to be the big re-launch right? gee you were there but didn't even come back for 99 did you? Shame, if you had with all of your knowledge on what's good, they could have won class .

In '99 I lived / worked in Hopkinsville, KY. Given 6 month of being out of work in '98(Harrisburg, PA), and six months out of work in '99(Hopkinsville, KY). It just wasn't possible at that time. It would have been nice but just not possible. I did see seek out the local corps Bluegrass Brass? in 2000, but apparently they folded in April of that year. So I eventually ended up with Cincinnati Tradition in 2002, only to loose my job yet again later that year. And I have otherwise been in Texas since that time.

[Jeff Ream]

Well in '98, I didn't even bother to pursue the minicorps route. I had just gotten out of the Army Band and was not all that into it as I could have been.

I tend towards my weaknesses. i.e. I'm not gonna pretend to be the best Tuba, Mellophone, Trumpet, Audiologist, Vidoegrapher in the business, being a Euphonium player by choice. But there exists a need for such attributes, and I tend towards those ends, at great personal expense, even without the respect, adoration, or even support of DCA. DCA seems to be more about creating voids than performance outlets. As Rich Moon has implied, many of the rules have the potential to eliminate all competitiors. And somehow this is good? If there exists a 300 members corps with a field show, I think I'd like to see that at DCA. But according to current rules, not a chance in hell. If future corps took it to the field I think I'd like to see that at DCA. But according to current rules, not a chance in hell. If I front $10K+ in equipment for my local corps, I think I'd like to see that at DCA, but according to current rules, not a chance in hell. And yet somehow this is good for the activity?

AFAIK, no corps runs a "profit" by doing DCA. So why completely ignore / deny them access to it? Granted that only so much can happen in a single weekend. But AFAIK, that limit has yet to be exceeded. Maybe with delays and other issues, it has. But in terms of a well managed situation, it has yet to exceed unmanageability. Not that it wont, but I think we're still a few years / decades away from that.

then if you wish to seek change within DCA, as you have been told a million times, get a corps to sponsor the proposal YOU write and see if it flies.

otherwise, you just end up hurting your cause. I don't see any corps out here complaining baout it to nearly the extent you do, and some of the newer and smaller corps have even spoken up for the rule.

what does that tell you?

it tells you put up or shut up.

[MoonHill]

As Rich Moon has implied, many of the rules have the potential to eliminate all competitiors. And somehow this is good?

Yep. Because there are more reasons for, and more effects from, every one of those rules than what you have been focused on.

By the logic you've been standing firm on, the best thing for the activity would be to remove all exclusionary statutes, without exception. Because if someone has a didgerido and an electronic drum machine and some skill at interpretive dance, then why shouldn't they be allowed to compete on the field? How is excluding them, or the guy who wrote a kick-### program that simulates what a 3-billion-member field show would look like from orbit, to be shown on a Macintosh notebook placed on the front sideline, at all good for the activity?

[84BDsop]

and some of the newer and smaller corps have even spoken up for the rule.

And even thought I don't agree with the 35 rule without a provision for corps that fall into the gap, I never complained about DCI's30 minimum rule for us out west....complained about the recruiting restrictions, yes....the required numbers, no.

And keep in mind I once fielded a corps with 8 brass, 4 battery, 4 guard, and 1 DM...back when there was no minimum.

(One of these days I have to dig out and digitize my video of Nightfire's last performance...it may be the ONLY recording of any type of the corps in show)

[Kansan]

And even thought I don't agree with the 35 rule without a provision for corps that fall into the gap, I never complained about DCI's30 minimum rule for us out west....complained about the recruiting restrictions, yes....the required numbers, no.

And keep in mind I once fielded a corps with 8 brass, 4 battery, 4 guard, and 1 DM...back when there was no minimum.

(One of these days I have to dig out and digitize my video of Nightfire's last performance...it may be the ONLY recording of any type of the corps in show)

Don't you have some Nightfire pics up on the web? I remember seeing them.

Edited September 25, 2008 by Kansan