Screamers

[crazymello]

Screamers? I like BD in my era: 79-80. Great screamers both years.

Oh man, those two sops on La Suerte De Los Tontos.... whoo, too many highschools try that song and fail utterly with that modern lame trumpet solo that like... gets to a G above the staff. >_> annoys me.

[hrnguy500]

yeah. Nothing worst than a person struggling to play high while imitating something they heard. Blech.

[crazymello]

Especially on such a fun piece like La Suerte De Los Tontos

[monoemono]

we had a screamer in 1985. She woke the whole bus up one night.

LOL^100

[monoemono]

<snip>

This whole thing about " you either have it or you dont" is messed up.

<snip>

After getting this guys book, within 3 sessions of practice, i could play a C above the staff with my trumpet tied to a string with out any pressure.

<snip>

While we're calling BS on posts, I'll return the favor. I want to see a video of you playing a high C with your trumpet hanging from a string. No, better yet, I want to see a video of you playing ANY NOTE AT ALL on a trumpet hanging from a sting.

I think you missed the general spirit of my post. If you re-read it, I think you'll find that I'm not trying to discourage anyone from playing lead. I believe what I said is that most trumpet players could play lead, to a certain degree. But when you begin talking natural ability vs. hard work, in a physical activity like the one we're discussing, at some point you HAVE to acknowledge natural ability. It's like telling a kid who is slow that if they work hard enough at it they will be able to run the 40 faster than the guys at the Olympics. Can you get faster? Yeah. That much faster? No way. As with all analogies, it's not a direct comparison, but the same principle applies. Some of the screamers you hear in DCI, big bands, etc., have a natural ability that few have. That's why it's cool. That's why it's special. Does that mean you should quit playing trumpet if you can't do it? Not at all. I find that my ability to play lead grows as I get older, stronger, smarter, more mature, and more experienced. I'm still never going to be Jon Faddis, Arturo, Maynard, Roger Ingram, the guy who played lead in my jazz band, et al, and the sooner I accepted that, the happier I was.

Now to the original poster, I am in no way saying that you're in my boat. I've never heard you play. You may well have that ability and not know it yet. But if you find you don't, you don't have to go into the deep depression and hopeless frustration that I've seen many MANY trumpet players adopt because they couldn't play double C at the drop of a hat. There's way more to great trumpet playing than that.

[bdavis]

While we're calling BS on posts, I'll return the favor. I want to see a video of you playing a high C with your trumpet hanging from a string. No, better yet, I want to see a video of you playing ANY NOTE AT ALL on a trumpet hanging from a sting.

I think you missed the general spirit of my post. If you re-read it, I think you'll find that I'm not trying to discourage anyone from playing lead. I believe what I said is that most trumpet players could play lead, to a certain degree. But when you begin talking natural ability vs. hard work, in a physical activity like the one we're discussing, at some point you HAVE to acknowledge natural ability. It's like telling a kid who is slow that if they work hard enough at it they will be able to run the 40 faster than the guys at the Olympics. Can you get faster? Yeah. That much faster? No way. As with all analogies, it's not a direct comparison, but the same principle applies. Some of the screamers you hear in DCI, big bands, etc., have a natural ability that few have. That's why it's cool. That's why it's special. Does that mean you should quit playing trumpet if you can't do it? Not at all. I find that my ability to play lead grows as I get older, stronger, smarter, more mature, and more experienced. I'm still never going to be Jon Faddis, Arturo, Maynard, Roger Ingram, the guy who played lead in my jazz band, et al, and the sooner I accepted that, the happier I was.

Now to the original poster, I am in no way saying that you're in my boat. I've never heard you play. You may well have that ability and not know it yet. But if you find you don't, you don't have to go into the deep depression and hopeless frustration that I've seen many MANY trumpet players adopt because they couldn't play double C at the drop of a hat. There's way more to great trumpet playing than that.

"While we're calling BS on posts, I'll return the favor. I want to see a video of you playing a high C with your trumpet hanging from a string. No, better yet, I want to see a video of you playing ANY NOTE AT ALL on a trumpet hanging from a sting."

- If youre referring to me when you say "calling BS on posts", i wasnt calling BS on your post, i just feel that you are underinformed, i apologize if i came off harsh or brash.

Im not going to take offense to this quote, because you have every right to call me out, however, you honestly believe that I would post that on a forum and not be able to back it up? Even if you dont think I could play a C above the staff, you really think that I couldnt play any note, with only the pressure provided by the weight of the trumpet on a string? I honestly dont feel comfortable putting a video of myself on the web, but, if youre really interested in seeing the technique involved heres a link of a trumpet player using this system. The first video is his lips rolled completely out, as if he were playing pedal tones, he keeps this rolled out feeling all the way through the partials to the double G, the second is his lips rolled completely in, demonstrating the full range of motion of the lips.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=12...vt=lf&hl=en

The idea is, if you can play a pedal C with your lips completely rolled in, and a Double C, with your lips rolled out in the pedal position, then you can find your balance point much easier. Most students, while doing the roll in sessions, will play a G above the staff on their very first lesson.

"I'm still never going to be Jon Faddis, Arturo, Maynard, Roger Ingram, the guy who played lead in my jazz band, et al, and the sooner I accepted that, the happier I was."

You could have been one of those people, if you wanted to be, but you accepted the fact that you didnt want to take that route( and it seems that you disguised it as thinking you werent "gifted enough"). Trumpet playing is 90% hard work and 10% talent. Where theres a will, theres a way.

[monoemono]

First off, bdavis, thanks for being civil. I'll do my best to return in kind.

To call me underinformed would be incorrect. I've been playing trumpet most of my life, I've seen systems, tried systems, there are a million of them out there. I'm a fan of what Bobby Shew has to say on the topic. It's out there on the net, I can't find the url right now, but he talks about this stuff in his master class. If you've ever heard people talk about "wedge" breathing, you've heard the essence of it. He credits Maynard with tipping him off to it.

The "rolling in and out" and the no pressure, "trumpet on a string" and "trumpet flat in the palm of your hand" stuff remind me a lot of "Double High C in 37 Weeks" by Roger W. Spaulding. Is there any connection there?

Rolling in and out was not it for me. If it worked for you, awesome. It made me worse, and I ditched it and the teacher who was making me do it.

Simple fact is, I did not disguise it as thinking I wasn't gifted enough. I'm not disguising anything. I'm flat out saying it. I did not have the natural physical ability that those who can do it have. I was not devastated to come to this conclusion, as I had already decided it was a greater priority for me to try to play like Miles, Clifford, and Woody Shaw.

I like to say it that way better, by the way; natural physical ability, rather than gifted. We accept this idea in sports, but seem reluctant to admit that it exists in another physical discipline, playing high on a trumpet.

To confuse this further with another analogy: I was a really good baseball player. I had ZERO talent, ZERO natural physical ability. I worked REALLY hard to become a skilled, smart baseball player. I don't know how far I could have gone if I had stuck with it. But one thing is clear. At some point, I would have had to become a catcher or a pitcher, because I am SLOW. I can't run fast. No amount of work would have ever made me as fast as other kids I played with. Any coach or player anywhere would have told me the same. I still could have been a good catcher, or maybe first baseman, and batted .305, but never an outfielder, never someone with a zillion stolen bases. The lack of physical ability as a runner would have held me back.

Same thing applies here. I found another way. I have good, functional range, I took up improvising as my main focus, and my playing gets better every day. I don't believe that I could have been a Maynard, Bill Chase, etc., with the right method. The facts don't bear it out. Now we could go in circles forever about whether I'm right or whether I just quit, but just like the trumpet on the string, I guess you're just going to have to take my word on it.

[bdavis]

First off, bdavis, thanks for being civil. I'll do my best to return in kind.

To call me underinformed would be incorrect. I've been playing trumpet most of my life, I've seen systems, tried systems, there are a million of them out there. I'm a fan of what Bobby Shew has to say on the topic. It's out there on the net, I can't find the url right now, but he talks about this stuff in his master class. If you've ever heard people talk about "wedge" breathing, you've heard the essence of it. He credits Maynard with tipping him off to it.

The "rolling in and out" and the no pressure, "trumpet on a string" and "trumpet flat in the palm of your hand" stuff remind me a lot of "Double High C in 37 Weeks" by Roger W. Spaulding. Is there any connection there?

Rolling in and out was not it for me. If it worked for you, awesome. It made me worse, and I ditched it and the teacher who was making me do it.

Simple fact is, I did not disguise it as thinking I wasn't gifted enough. I'm not disguising anything. I'm flat out saying it. I did not have the natural physical ability that those who can do it have. I was not devastated to come to this conclusion, as I had already decided it was a greater priority for me to try to play like Miles, Clifford, and Woody Shaw.

I like to say it that way better, by the way; natural physical ability, rather than gifted. We accept this idea in sports, but seem reluctant to admit that it exists in another physical discipline, playing high on a trumpet.

To confuse this further with another analogy: I was a really good baseball player. I had ZERO talent, ZERO natural physical ability. I worked REALLY hard to become a skilled, smart baseball player. I don't know how far I could have gone if I had stuck with it. But one thing is clear. At some point, I would have had to become a catcher or a pitcher, because I am SLOW. I can't run fast. No amount of work would have ever made me as fast as other kids I played with. Any coach or player anywhere would have told me the same. I still could have been a good catcher, or maybe first baseman, and batted .305, but never an outfielder, never someone with a zillion stolen bases. The lack of physical ability as a runner would have held me back.

Same thing applies here. I found another way. I have good, functional range, I took up improvising as my main focus, and my playing gets better every day. I don't believe that I could have been a Maynard, Bill Chase, etc., with the right method. The facts don't bear it out. Now we could go in circles forever about whether I'm right or whether I just quit, but just like the trumpet on the string, I guess you're just going to have to take my word on it.

Cheers sir!

[monoemono]

Cheers sir!

BTW, if you can play double C, I am envious, 'cause I still secretly want to be Maynard. Shhh, don' tell.....

[crazymello]

natural ability... I hate it... it is like perfect pitch. I know one guy who is the perfectly built musical machine.

Firstly, he has perfect pitch. I mean, wtf. He can hear a note and tell you exactly what note it is. That is friggin' bothersome. another natural ability.

Secondly- First time he picked up a trumpet, he played a double G. and he is a euph player....