OKAY.... I'm gonna say it

[ATXguard]

I think the concerns about the judging go deeper than whining about placements. All season, there have been concerns about inconsistent feedback between judges in the same caption at different shows, and even the same judges from show to show. It is frustrating and bewildering to try to USE the commentary given to make the show better, only to have the next panel, and sometimes the same judge who gave earlier commentary, give exactly opposite opinions a week or two later. Before anyone jumps on me, I have voiced my concerns to the people who can try to help make some sense of this and hopefully address the concerns of the instructors. I hope that the discussions about judging can be handled in a productive and helpful way to motivate change for next year instead of turning into a blaming contest.

The ordinals at World Championships changed dramatically in many captions in virtually every class from day to day this year. I don't think anyone is asking for anything more than consistent feedback and a consistent idea of what range they fit in competitively. I thought SCV was incredible and definitely deserved their win. Aimachi was better than I expected, and I really enjoyed their show as well. I personally thought they'd come in either 2nd or 3rd, and would have been fine with either placement. As the others before me said, Northeast was beautiful Saturday night, and everyone in the section I was sitting in was STUNNED when they were announced in 4th.

While obviously disappointed and confused by the outcome, it was also great to see them handle themselves with class and dignity both on the floor and at headquarters later. While I talked with some of the Northeast members and staff, MANY people came up to express their disappointment in the final rankings, and each time the were gracious and appreciative while never blaming or being bitter. Obviously, I've loved them for a long time for many reasons, but this weekend showed me even more why I'm glad the kids in my program are fortunate enough to learn from and interact with such a classy organization.

I agree with everything said here! :-) This past weekend after Dayton, some of our staff were discussing the confusion over inconsistent comments and scoring throughout the entire season. We were told so many contradictory things that we stopped listening to comments and just focused on making the kids better and fixing what we thought were problems in the show-- btw not one judge ever told us anything negative about our show design, but we were consistently low box 4 in the upstairs captions and just couldn't rise above that. Maybe because our kids couldn't consistently toss 5s and 6s on weapon, so we wrote to what they were capable of achieving? I thought that was what the 70/130 split was all about? Who knows.

It's come to the point where we're basically compiling a checklist of "mandatories" to put into our show next year. Anyone remember that Field of View show where they listed and performed all the "required" elements of being a Top 6 guard? Yeah. we're doing something like that in the hopes that we can at least get out of the first round next year.

Edited April 6, 2009 by ATXguard

[dugg]

Anyone remember that Field of View show where they listed and performed all the "required" elements of being a Top 6 guard?

yes,

[2rifle2]

what was aimachi's show music called?

[danishmodern]

It's come to the point where we're basically compiling a checklist of "mandatories" to put into our show next year.

that's funny that you wrote that. our staff sat in the stands, watching our class finals and made a list of everything we saw that all the groups did. i'll watch the DVD and do the same thing.

that's what our show will be next year... all the things that a group is supposed to do in order to place well. oh, and with a slow, boring soundtrack.

[Jeremy Denzer]

If the subcaptions were consistent from show to show everyone would still be yelling conspiracy, slotting etc etc etc. I personally was glad to see some movement in every class from prelims to finals. It proved that the judges were judging what they saw on that day and not basing their numbers on those previously given by others on different days.

[Fly4aGuardGuy]

what was aimachi's show music called?

The main song is called.. "Lullaby for Cain" by Sinead O'Conner

[hornstothebox]

Okay, I'll say it.

A lot of the hype is simply because they're from Japan. I mean seriously, if that same group, show and performance were from Ankeny Iowa, would that have medaled? The WGI community has been fauning over them for a long time going back to when they were the first international guard to make the "I" in WGI mean more than Canada, comprised of cute little Japanese girls (who were actually 25 years old, hence the world class age rules). We are just so anxious to hand out our first international gold medal that we can't see what is happening... Lots and lot of hype.

Fact is, if you remove the plethora of baton tricks from that program, what is there?? Although the main baton twirler is fantastic, and has a great cast of twirlers surrounding him, is this really what the activity is to become....a baton fest? God I hope not, or I'll find better things to do with my weekends.

In the past I have been very fond of their shows because of their entertainment value and how well they worked as guard shows, with or without batons. This one?....meh. Lots of hype about what was a very good performance and a very decent show, but hardly medal worthy IMO.

Oh, and I agree with the ensemble judge who had them in 8th by the way.

HTTB

[backntheday]

Okay, I'll say it.

A lot of the hype is simply because they're from Japan. I mean seriously, if that same group, show and performance were from Ankeny Iowa, would that have medaled? The WGI community has been fauning over them for a long time going back to when they were the first international guard to make the "I" in WGI mean more than Canada, comprised of cute little Japanese girls (who were actually 25 years old, hence the world class age rules). We are just so anxious to hand out our first international gold medal that we can't see what is happening... Lots and lot of hype.

Fact is, if you remove the plethora of baton tricks from that program, what is there?? Although the main baton twirler is fantastic, and has a great cast of twirlers surrounding him, is this really what the activity is to become....a baton fest? God I hope not, or I'll find better things to do with my weekends.

In the past I have been very fond of their shows because of their entertainment value and how well they worked as guard shows, with or without batons. This one?....meh. Lots of hype about what was a very good performance and a very decent show, but hardly medal worthy IMO.

Oh, and I agree with the ensemble judge who had them in 8th by the way.

HTTB

Although I loved their show I do have issues with the amount of breaks and drops they had on baton, rifle and sabre, Corona also had too many drops. I do not believe it is the right message to send. For all those who will say drops are not everything I agree but they are something.

Edited April 6, 2009 by backntheday

[aguardguy]

Okay, I'll say it.

A lot of the hype is simply because they're from Japan. I mean seriously, if that same group, show and performance were from Ankeny Iowa, would that have medaled? The WGI community has been fauning over them for a long time going back to when they were the first international guard to make the "I" in WGI mean more than Canada, comprised of cute little Japanese girls (who were actually 25 years old, hence the world class age rules). We are just so anxious to hand out our first international gold medal that we can't see what is happening... Lots and lot of hype.

Fact is, if you remove the plethora of baton tricks from that program, what is there?? Although the main baton twirler is fantastic, and has a great cast of twirlers surrounding him, is this really what the activity is to become....a baton fest? God I hope not, or I'll find better things to do with my weekends.

In the past I have been very fond of their shows because of their entertainment value and how well they worked as guard shows, with or without batons. This one?....meh. Lots of hype about what was a very good performance and a very decent show, but hardly medal worthy IMO.

Oh, and I agree with the ensemble judge who had them in 8th by the way.

HTTB

Ummmm....wow. Ok - I suppose this is where each has their own opinions. From where I sat - I was blown away by Aimachi. In fact, I thought the baton fest was exactly what was not there. It finally seemed as though this was an ingenious effect layered on top of masterful design. Not one time did I see them pick up equipment. The design flowed seamlessly from one element into the next. I'm still in awe - as a designer - at Michael's brilliance in getting them into their primary flag statement. So much so that the artistry in design left me in tears.

What was difficult for me was to not judge them on what I expected. I expected hype and a more one dimensional approach to effect. What I got was much more layered and nuanced. I am thrilled to have had the chance to experience it.

I will also say that I thought all of the top 4 had extraordinary things to offer. Each group had their own strengths and were medal worthy in my eyes. It was an incredible top 4 - thank you to all 4 groups....it was honor to experience your art.

For everyone who had the chance to experience Black Gold in prelims and enjoyed the show.....thank you for such a warm reception - you will never know how special this moment was for us. Although dissapointed that we did not get to perform for the amazing finals audience, the performance we did have was such a positive experience. The kind words and genuine appreciation of many audience members that were shared with the cast and staff of BG truly made this years WGI the most positive experience we could have ever hoped for.

Mikel Burress

[Jak]

that's funny that you wrote that. our staff sat in the stands, watching our class finals and made a list of everything we saw that all the groups did. i'll watch the DVD and do the same thing.

that's what our show will be next year... all the things that a group is supposed to do in order to place well. oh, and with a slow, boring soundtrack.

I'll tell you the key to getting in finals: Have a well-constructed show, make sure your kids are trained and squeaky clean, and have enough vocabulary to compete at the top of the class. That's really all there is to it. There's no great secret there, nor is there some conspiracy.