Matt_S Posted July 16, 2009 Share Posted July 16, 2009 if the electronics are listed on the sheets ( anyone have an 09 sheet to show us?) then you almost have to have it...if not, you're missing a part of the sheet That gets repeated fairly often, but I'm not convinced it's true. Take as an example the corps that parks the battery against the sidelines for their ballad. They do so without any worry of repercussion. Call me naive if you wish, but I can't imagine a judge deciding not to give out high 9's in the effect captions just because a corps goes without a synth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mello Dude Posted July 16, 2009 Share Posted July 16, 2009 Interesting observation on your part there....considering you did actually say Phantom wasn't doing better than they are because they aren't using electronics. The education system has nothing to do with this debate at this point. The system didn't teach you willful ignorance, that's something you've achieved all by yourself. If you say that drum corps shows are better without the electronics and a corps doesn't use electronics, then by your own assessment that corps will score better--right? You are arguing with yourself when on the one hand you say "a corps isn't doing well because they haven't implemented electronics", and on the other "electronics aren't needed, the shows would be better without them". If you are using the "build-up" system as opposed to the "tic" for your analysis, did you take into the consideration that those corps who are using the electronics don't get points for just having them on the field, they do in fact have to use them effectively. So, it would make more sense to me that if a corps doesn't have to worry about effectively using electronics in their show and it isn't a required element, then that corps could spend more time dealing with what's actually on the field--giving them more time to get better at those things(drill, drumline, hornline and guard). With Phantom, the recaps appear to be saying that their guard isn't quiet there yet and that's difference for them within their competitive circle. What does not having electronics have to do with their guard score, because all the other captions seems pretty good to me? Willful ignorance? I find it fascinating the way you try and deflect every discussion by cherry picking one sentence out of a paragraph or thought rather than keeping it in it's original form and in CONTEXT. Again, you change what you are saying. One time you mention penalized the next some other incarnation of what was posted. Do you even notice this trend? Words have meanings, I am sorry if you cannot grasp this concept but there is a huge difference between being penalized and not getting a better score for having something else that can add to their buildup score. Where on God's Earth did I EVER bring up the tic system? What does the guard have to do with a synth or music score? I DO believe drum corps should be an unplugged activity, as do many others, but what does THAT have to do with the current rules and perceptions of DCI and the judging community? You are once again TOTALLY missing the point and your post proves precisely what I posted previously. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mello Dude Posted July 16, 2009 Share Posted July 16, 2009 How could it be listed on the sheet as a separate caption, if it's in the show and is also effective then yes it will help the effect, but if you don't have it you don't get counted off for it. So, I guess the corps that are using them are the ones taking the biggest risk because if they use them ineffectively it takes away from the show. and HERE you seem to get it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpiritofAtlanta99 Posted July 16, 2009 Share Posted July 16, 2009 here's the thing....on here, in the stands...i dont hear this groundswell, this mass voice of people shouting how electronics has made drum corps that much better. I heard high school kids.....the DCI target range of fans...laughing at it and calling it dumb and cheesy.a direct quote: "wow, thats every bad band we laughed at at championships last year" person quoted: 16/17 year old kid proudly wearing his bands gear. not a top band either I am relying on my own feelings toward electronics, not those other voices screaming their opinions. Maybe that's the difference. Your direct quote is really bothersome to me that you would use it as help for your argument. That's the same thing immature teens do "everybody thinks so". When you become an independent adult, you should rely on your own thought process. If you happen to arrive at the same conclusion as others after you've thought it through then good for you, at least you gave it independent thought. Giving feedback from people who agree with you only says you are not alone with your opinion, but that doesn't prove anything to the otherside of the argument. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mello Dude Posted July 16, 2009 Share Posted July 16, 2009 SOA99, I'm not trying to get into a peeing match here about this so I don't want you to take this the wrong way or cause hurt feeling no matter what. This is just a debate thread and everyone is entitled to their opinions. Quite honestly, I didn't get this worked up before synth's because IMHO this is the straw that broke my back about DCI and the direction of drum corps (if it really qualifies for that anymore). I think someone said it better than I did, "I didn't leave DCI..it left me." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpiritofAtlanta99 Posted July 16, 2009 Share Posted July 16, 2009 Willful ignorance? I find it fascinating the way you try and deflect every discussion by cherry picking one sentence out of a paragraph or thought rather than keeping it in it's original form and in CONTEXT. Again, you change what you are saying. One time you mention penalized the next some other incarnation of what was posted. Do you even notice this trend? Words have meanings, I am sorry if you cannot grasp this concept but there is a huge difference between being penalized and not getting a better score for having something else that can add to their buildup score. Where on God's Earth did I EVER bring up the tic system? What does the guard have to do with a synth or music score? I DO believe drum corps should be an unplugged activity, as do many others, but what does THAT have to do with the current rules and perceptions of DCI and the judging community? You are once again TOTALLY missing the point and your post proves precisely what I posted previously. I am not on trial here. I can ask and answer questions the same as you. This is a discussion and no one person dictates the direction in which our question and answer takes us. You want to go down a certain road with your questioning and I chose to take a different path. Don't get upset or confused because I want back into the corner for you. I didn't say that you said anything about the tic system. I took what you stated and in my reponse to you, I included my own reasoning and question(s). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mello Dude Posted July 16, 2009 Share Posted July 16, 2009 I am relying on my own feelings toward electronics, not those other voices screaming their opinions. Maybe that's the difference. Your direct quote is really bothersome to me that you would use it as help for your argument. That's the same thing immature teens do "everybody thinks so". When you become an independent adult, you should rely on your own thought process. If you happen to arrive at the same conclusion as others after you've thought it through then good for you, at least you gave it independent thought. Giving feedback from people who agree with you only says you are not alone with your opinion, but that doesn't prove anything to the otherside of the argument. Unfortunately, SOA99, the only way to judge art or taste in music is with the "we" argument. One could argue attendance figures or revenues but that could be another red herring as there are far fewer shows anymore. I suppose the only real way to tell whether people are offended by syths are possible having a booth at a show where people could vote on it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j.morgus Posted July 16, 2009 Share Posted July 16, 2009 here's the thing....on here, in the stands...i dont hear this groundswell, this mass voice of people shouting how electronics has made drum corps that much better. After finally having a chance to experience the use of these tools live, I have to say that this about sums up the response at the Tuesday's Mississippi Sound Spectacular. Mostly, there were balance problems with the electronics in general, especially in the beginning of each corps performance. Teal Sounds opening mellophone solo was completely drowned out by the entrance of the pit accompaniment. Three notes of mello, then an blast of loud mallets accompanied by a kid holding a mello and moving his fingers (I'm sure that he was playing, but my ears couldn't prove it). This was also true at the beginning of most corps' shows. Maybe instead of starting with the main way up, starting with the initial settings at a lower volume, then bringing it up would be less obnoxious. The synthesizers themselves weren't as noticeable as one would would have been led to think, except where they were very prominent. The heavy use of the synth in the intro to Boston's show, with the middle eastern sounding string (sitar?) patch had quite a few folks looking around and asking "what is that?". The "apple bite" was an interesting moment, but the reaction from the crowd was less a sign of approval or welcome, and actually more of a titter or giggle. The moment from Cadet's intro, the gang whistles from the WSS prologue, sounded very artificial. It would have gone over much better had it been done live. When you have performers standing there next to microphones, and need some contrapuntal whistles, why not have some of them just pucker up and blow? The other "ground breaking" use of electronic instruments that we were shown that night was the rock band on the front sideline from Teal Sound. Really. These had most of the folks near me asking WTF? Not only did they not add anything substantial to the music performance (except where the set drummer and the battery had some noticeable phasing issues), they looked completely out of place. Rather than the pride in appearance that traditionally is a part of a corps' presentation, these guys looked dirty and disrespectful in their tee shirts and shorts jumping around and waving their guitars in a "Hey, look at me" manner. So... Many things there that had people asking "what?" and "why?" I didn't hear a single comment that would lead me to think that this change to the corps makeup will have kids rushing out to shows because they now feel like "wow, drum corps 'gets' us!" Certainly not an addition that requires "marching music" to tie itself more to the stage with cords. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted July 16, 2009 Share Posted July 16, 2009 How could it be listed on the sheet as a separate caption, if it's in the show and is also effective then yes it will help the effect, but if you don't have it you don't get counted off for it. So, I guess the corps that are using them are the ones taking the biggest risk because if they use them ineffectively it takes away from the show. amplification is on the ensemble music sheet a part of the subcaption and it was there before every corps used it. synths could be the same thing Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpiritofAtlanta99 Posted July 16, 2009 Share Posted July 16, 2009 SOA99,I'm not trying to get into a peeing match here about this so I don't want you to take this the wrong way or cause hurt feeling no matter what. This is just a debate thread and everyone is entitled to their opinions. Quite honestly, I didn't get this worked up before synth's because IMHO this is the straw that broke my back about DCI and the direction of drum corps (if it really qualifies for that anymore). I think someone said it better than I did, "I didn't leave DCI..it left me." What were are trying to do is impress our perspective and opinion on the other. That's okay with me as long as those of you that have a problem with electronics can explain how electronics has taken away or hurt DCI with facts. The reason for all the back and forth is because some try to pass off their opinions as facts. We're all fans for different reasons--will we agree on all the reasons why we are fans? Not a snowball's chance Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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