Granny Smith Posted June 22, 2009 Share Posted June 22, 2009 There's a danger of being away from the forums for awhile because it's possible topics have already been discussed. Has anyone brought up the use of electronics yet? Just kidding. Actually, I'd like to ask a more nuanced question as I notice patterns that emerge from people who are in favor of electronics. One of the fundamental arguments FOR electronics (amplification, etc.) is the "progression" or "change" of drum corps. This caused me to start wondering (and here comes my question), "What other competitive activities in America (or around the world)" have "progressed" in the same way we see drum corps "progressing"? I myself have thought about baseball, football, other various sports (including my favorite: pairs skating). So, I'm wondering all y'all's opinion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OMH Posted June 22, 2009 Share Posted June 22, 2009 "What other competitive activities in America (or around the world)" have "progressed" in the same way we see drum corps "progressing"?I myself have thought about baseball, football, other various sports (including my favorite: pairs skating). So, I'm wondering all y'all's opinion. Baseball...steroids Football...felony incidents Pairs skating...Blades Of Glory Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
willyc Posted June 22, 2009 Share Posted June 22, 2009 Lights for night games? 350 pound linemen? No more leather helmets? Designated hitters? Gloves that are far more padded? A more-lively ball? Steroids (which we deplore) for a higher level of performance (which we cheer)? And so on, and so on......................... I'd hazard a guess that if these sports hadn't changed the way they have over the years, the stands wouldn't be anywhere near as full as they are today (or were before late last year, with the economy). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Granny Smith Posted June 22, 2009 Author Share Posted June 22, 2009 Lights for night games? 350 pound linemen? No more leather helmets? Designated hitters? Gloves that are far more padded? A more-lively ball? Steroids (which we deplore) for a higher level of performance (which we cheer)? And so on, and so on.........................I'd hazard a guess that if these sports hadn't changed the way they have over the years, the stands wouldn't be anywhere near as full as they are today (or were before late last year, with the economy). I agree that there have been equipment improvements (as there have been in drum corps), but, I'm not convinced that those changes have caused one to question whether or not an activity has fundamentally been altered. In baseball, the game remains virtually unchanged for over 100 years. Now...if they simply started rolling a red rubber ball to home and instead of hitting it with a bat, they kicked it with their foot, then it seems to me that the game has become something else. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rochester New York Posted June 22, 2009 Share Posted June 22, 2009 Good question! I'm sure you'll get many disgruntled replies complaning about "beating a dead horse," which seems to be the OTHER trend among pro-electronics posters. In my mind, it's beating a dead horse the same way that discussing steroids in baseball is beating a dead horse. I think you nailed it with the "competitive" question. DCI needs to decide whether it wants to remain a credible COMPETITIVE activity. If so, they need to address the discrepancies created when electronics compensate for or overshadow the performers on the field. (e.g. see the thread on the Spirit "copout" last week) Of course, if DCI sees itself more as simply a producer of "entertaining" shows, then sure, go ahead--bring in electronics, woodwinds, actors, singers, dancing bears.... But don't fool yourself by thinking that the scores attached to those shows have any legitimacy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rochester New York Posted June 22, 2009 Share Posted June 22, 2009 Lights for night games? 350 pound linemen? No more leather helmets? Designated hitters? Gloves that are far more padded? A more-lively ball? Steroids (which we deplore) for a higher level of performance (which we cheer)? Wow, I guess I'm not the first one to think of the steroid analogy. It's very telling when the most popular analogy for electronics in drum corps is steroids in baseball. And I know many diehard baseball fans who do NOT "cheer" steroid-enhanced performers, no matter how hard they hit the ball. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill L. Posted June 22, 2009 Share Posted June 22, 2009 (edited) Thats simple......................... BOA. Now hold on just a min. before you blast me . There is nothing wrong with Marching Bands of America....oh wait they changed their name.... Bands of America . Which I am a member of a Grand National Championship band ! Back in my day all the bands tried to be like Drum Corps. They have progessed into a money hungry machine. Everything they do is about money. Their shows are like bad community theater. I was at the St. Louis super show last year. I watched 10 bands and left. You see one you've seen them all .They drag tons of crap on the field to dance on or around while the pit pounds on anything and everything..... and sometime during the show we have to have either huging and kissing or killing somebody or something. Geez, I even saw this years Cavie's show. They even had a giant hill they put together and climbed it at the end of show !.......................... Oh, I guess now drum corps is trying to like BOA....................... What about the music ? Oh wait , thats all about the money to. We can'tplay anything that anybody can relate to, it cost too much ! I better not get started on that ! Bill Edited June 22, 2009 by Bill L. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrownLeadSop Posted June 22, 2009 Share Posted June 22, 2009 Basketball has had tons of changes. Fouls, 3 point line, playoffs, etc. Racing has changes every YEAR. Engineering restrictions, fuel restrictions, engine limit, etc. However, the fundamentals in both sports have remained the same. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
willyc Posted June 22, 2009 Share Posted June 22, 2009 I agree that there have been equipment improvements (as there have been in drum corps), but, I'm not convinced that those changes have caused one to question whether or not an activity has fundamentally been altered.In baseball, the game remains virtually unchanged for over 100 years. Now...if they simply started rolling a red rubber ball to home and instead of hitting it with a bat, they kicked it with their foot, then it seems to me that the game has become something else. With respect, the rules have changed, but the goal is to still make music, so the rules haven't fundamentally changed. In your analogy, the goal of the game is to score runs, regardless of how the ball is hit, kicked, pitched/rolled, etc. so, in my opinion, my original analogy still holds, since the actuvity hasn't been fundamentally altered (make music and entertain crowds). Only the methodology has changed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShortAndFast Posted June 22, 2009 Share Posted June 22, 2009 "What other competitive activities in America (or around the world)" have "progressed" in the same way we see drum corps "progressing"? Well, "football" is a bit too abstract for me. Someone, somewhere probably plays by 1950s rules, leather helmets and all. If we're talking about the NFL, then they regularly tweak their rules. Here's one list of the historical changes. Most of these changes were explicitly made with the goal of making the game more exciting for spectators. While a lot of these are at the margins, there certainly are some big ones in there, like the addition of the 2 point conversion in 1994. The modern pro football game has "progressed" quite a distance from the more staid game of the 1970s. I'm sure you could find similar lists for the NBA and NHL. MLB has been much more conservative, but even there, changes like the height of the pitchers mound dramatically changed the game. You could also argue that the NFL hasn't changed football into cricket, and you'd be right. But they have largely erased the differences between the college and pro game that existed in the 80s. Does any of this help us understand DCI's changes better? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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