Does The Score Really Matter To The Performer?

[BRASSO]

I would really love to know when exactly this whole idea of "winning isn't important... it's the taking part that matters most" mentality started. Of course scores matter. It is a COMPETITIVE activity. Back in my day, if we got an 87.5 and VK got an 87.6, I wanted to go chew on live wasps! They (VK) were just the same. Competition is healthy, and in life we have winners and we have losers. That's just the facts. Tell me the scores don't matter when Santa Clara get's their butts kicked by Pioneer because it's "just a number" after all!

It brings a chuckle when those who say the scores and placements don't matter, then suddenly do well scoring wise on a particular night and we then watch how thrilled they are with the score.

In other words, to learn what a person values, don't listen to what they say they value, watch their behaviour, ie what they do.

[morganhill]

Of course the scores matter to the members. After all, it is a competitive activity.

[capsounddad]

I have not posted to this forum for quite a while, but I feel I must on this topic. In real life I am a high school math teacher at a large urban school. I have been involved with drum corps as a parent, driver, cook, bingo worker, concession stand worker and a member of the Board of Directors. I have also coached several sports including state championship level athletes for over twenty years. I say all this to qualify that my comments come from a broad prospective.

The true nature of competition is a comparison of one's self or organization against another or a given standard. I agree that competition in and of itself is a healthy endeavor. It energizes people to improve. If it is done with a group it provides support and encouragement to do things which might be difficult alone. When conducted in a mature, respectful way it provides confidence and respect to ALL who compete.

Unfortunately competition has been replaced by winning. Respect for fellow competitors has been replaced by ridicule and mean-spiritedness often displayed in the postings to this and other forums. Improvement and growth within the activity have been replaced by lobbying for changes to gain an advantage. Increasing, or at least maintaining, opportunities for young people to better themselves has been replaced by a narrowing of focus that in my opinion will kill the activity in a very short time.

Using the statement, "Pioneer beats Phantom", to justify the importance of scores insults everyone involved with the Pioneer organization. It should insult everyone who understands the great benefit this activity gives to EVERYONE involved. In TRUE competition, any corps should be able to win on any given night. If the Troopers beat Santa Clara because Santa Clara just put in their closer and it was sloppy while the Troopers did their whole show cleanly, then you can talk about true competition. Yes there will be a "Champion" crowned this year and we should all celebrate the accomplishments of the young people who gave that performance as well as the organization who gave them the opportunity. Unfortunately, the growing mentality is that unless you are in that "winning" corps, you are a loser, especially if you are not in an "elite" corps. That is not TRUE competition.

Rick Melcher

[fourouttheforty]

It doesn't matter to some, but it definitely matters to others. I know people who have taken years off and would not have come back, or gone to a different team, if we hadn't made a leap in placement and score.

[wesleyrp]

Yes the scores matter to the members, but a smart staff teaches their students to not dwell or use numbers as a motivation for anything... Something I took from my days at corps that I apply to my HS kiddos is that you go on the field to control your environment and not worry about what cannot be controlled. The best performance of your life does not always translate into a mega score and thus dwelling on a score only provides an emotional roller coaster. I think performers that are taught to be even keel whether the score is good or bad is the way to go... Truth of the matter is that even the best of scores does not show you what you still have to improve, but commentary and feedback does... Think of it this way, how do you explain what a .0350 is on a marching field? You don't, and that is why the overall progression of scores culminating in the improvement of the product is the most important thing.

Wes P

BK '97 '98

[mellofan]

Unfortunately competition has been replaced by winning. Respect for fellow competitors has been replaced by ridicule and mean-spiritedness often displayed in the postings to this and other forums. Improvement and growth within the activity have been replaced by lobbying for changes to gain an advantage. Increasing, or at least maintaining, opportunities for young people to better themselves has been replaced by a narrowing of focus that in my opinion will kill the activity in a very short time.

This is such a true statement. When the focus becomes only winning, then the benefits of any competition are lost. We need to have "winners" and "losers" in all areas of society because that is how we develop intrinsic motivation.

I am seeing an alarming trend with my middle school students who have come through their first 14 years of life without natural consequences. Many students are convinced that whatever they do is the best thing since sliced bread. The inflated praise used to build an equally inflated self-esteem has tainted their perception of reality. They have not learned the lesson that it is actually their personal effort that creates their success or failure; thus, if they don’t win the coveted prize, it is never due to their actions. It’s somebody else’s fault. Because of this mentality, many young people—and their parents—have bought into the notion that “jumping” teams/corps is the way to “improve” the kids’ competitive edge.

Marching in a very small Class A corps in the mid 70's under the old tick system was easier than marching in today’s corps. Although the system wasn’t perfect, the evaluation was more objective than today’s system. We realized that our score of 25 or 30 would never get us to the prized Open Class, but when we improved our scores, we knew it was because we were actually improving specific skills. Today’s judging is so subjective open to interpretation that improving the techniques of marching and playing really aren’t as rewarded as having the show of the season—whichever corps is lucky to have “it” in any given year.

As the parent of a current corps member, I’ve witnessed the frustration because of her corps not being able to “beat” the competition night after night. It didn’t matter whether her corps was fighting at the bottom of the rankings or in the top twelve; the perception of “slotting” has done more to create the idea that it doesn’t matter who does what because the finish will be similar year after year. I’m not sure the problem is as much the score itself as much as the lack of specific concrete reasons for those scores.

[supersop]

Well of course the competitive aspect of the activity is there. But it's not in the front of the performers minds. Having a productive rehearsal, and have a great show that night is all that matters. And if the judges thought that it was .1 behind another corps, then I'm not going to freak out, or get all WHAAAAAA about it. I'm going to do the same thing I've always been doing. Not going to let some little judge ruin my mental focus.

Tell ya what, I'll agree with you. Mostly.

From move in up until the Regionals, I didn't have the benefit of meeting head to head with who I considered "our competition" in 1990. Coming in 3rd at Birmingham kinda woke up the monster .. and the monster was ###### and hungry the next day ... and the next .. and the next.

1989 was a far different story. Every night you were up against Cavies, Phantom, Star ..... heck yeah we paid attention. You definitely notice the spreads when you're in full retreat hearing your corps name being announced in 3rd or 2nd place. The difference is, how does that affect your "Productive Rehearsal" the next day. Does it put a little fire in your pants? Are you a little ticked because you know you have the talent and show to be ahead of "that corps"? At some point (if you're behind), the ENTIRE corps has to step up the level of intensity, focus, drive and passion to be better ... EVERY TIME.

Now some might say, that's how it should be already and regardless of what you scored the night before. Sorry, that goes against human nature. If you're doing business as usual and being productive, thinking you're doing everything right and then get your ### kicked ... yeah you notice. And you step it up.

Numbers always matter, but they don't matter as much when you believe that your product, your corps and staff have a 100% bulletproof gameplan to end up where you belong on Saturday night.

If you're there to have a good time and enjoy the experience of drumcorps .... numbers don't ever matter really. --- NEVER

If you're there to be a monster and as perfect as possible, you expect the same from the people around you then, numbers matter more when they aren't jibing with your expectations on a day to day basis. --- DAILY

If you're there for a little bit of both ... that just means you're willing to use the excuse that numbers don't matter when things don't work out the way you want them to. But only when the season is over. --- AFTER FINALS

[soccerguy315]

Drum corps needs scores. Without scores there would be and could be no champion, without a champion the fans and alumni would have no reason to pull for one corps over another, and without fans, well, just ask major league soccer.

MLS has way more fans than DCI.

That is all.

[acolli17]

I'm getting really tired of the people that are pushing for tag or ring around the rosie to be non-competing games. They're just the ones that lost those games when they played them as kids.

I'm not really sure what I meant by that, whether I'm joking or not, or if I agree with myself. I know that I don't agree with taking out all the competition from schools. I was listening to the radio and seriously heard about schools that are banning tag because it makes individuals feel displaced.

I went to try out on tenors for a Div. 1 corps my junior year of high school. I was not remotely prepared, and I had absolutely no idea what I actually had to be prepared with to be successful. I'll tell you that I never felt more out of place than I did that weekend, I seriously got 24th out of 24 people trying out. I "lost" an audition. How are people going to make me feel as if I weren't a loser in that situation? And how am I supposed to prepare myself for those situations if I never experience that kind of thing growing up playing tag and ring around the rosie?

And by the way, I lost the game.

Edited July 5, 2009 by acolli17

[Horizon]

I'm getting really tired of the people that are pushing for tag or ring around the rosie to be non-competing games. They're just the ones that lost those games when they played them as kids.

I'm not really sure what I meant by that, whether I'm joking or not, or if I agree with myself. I know that I don't agree with taking out all the competition from schools. I was listening to the radio and seriously heard about schools that are banning tag because it makes individuals feel displaced.

I went to try out on tenors for a Div. 1 corps my junior year of high school. I was not remotely prepared, and I had absolutely no idea what I actually had to be prepared with to be successful. I'll tell you that I never felt more out of place than I did that weekend, I seriously got 24th out of 24 people trying out. I "lost" an audition. How are people going to make me feel as if I weren't a loser in that situation? And how am I supposed to prepare myself for those situations if I never experience that kind of thing growing up playing tag and ring around the rosie?

I certainly agree on the whole competition in schools thing. They're basically teaching the kids to be pansies nowadays, getting rid of all games in which there is any sort of contact that might "hurt" the poor kids, and emphasizing games in which there are no winners.

However, being that drum corps is a judged activity, it is my opinion that nightly scores don't play as big of a role. When I marched there were a lot of nights where collectively we thought we did really well, but that wasn't reflected in the score. Some nights we thought we were downright terrible, but our score jumped anyways. I think a corps opinion is ultimately more important than that of the judges panel. Hence, the scores shouldn't really matter as much to a performer.