ilovedc2 Posted July 24, 2009 Share Posted July 24, 2009 In a city where on any given weekday there are several big name non-profit group events and dozens of non-profit campaigners walking the streets asking the public for money, it's tough to be a little drum corps and have your voice be heard. Being a staffer with the OC on and off since '05, it's not from a lack of trying that the drum corps is in this position. The current Directors are the best thing to happen to this organization and recent NW drumcorps. Period. I know some of you locals will argue that statement, but it's true. These are good, honest and VERY intelligent and fiscally conservative people running this group. These folks were handed a 3-legged horse and told that they needed to compete at the Kentucky Derby the next day!! I think with what was put on their plate they are doing an excellent job and working very hard to make it work and grow! To throw stones in their direction is your choice, but I think it's a bit harsh to trash talk a group that's been so consistent in terms of quality product and quality of experience for the members, volunteers and staff. Phil and Mike, you guys are amazing people and you are doing very good work for your local organization. It's not an easy thing to ask for help these days, but you did, and I respect you both for that. Many have just thrown in the towel before you yet you persevere. Nice work. Beers are on me when you get home. To those that donated, thank you for doing your part to sustain this beautiful activity. To those that sit and pass judgment, thank you for presenting compelling arguments and ideas for the group. The world needs both. But always remember when you get on here and raise a stink, your words are affecting real world people that are already working very hard to fix the things that you are shaking a finger at. Viva La OC, baby!!! word. Thank you....very well put! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ImperialSound_Director Posted July 24, 2009 Share Posted July 24, 2009 No disrspect but lets call a spade a spade here. Someone has to and should be fiscally responsible. 50k short is a substantial amount of money. Dude, finding that extra 50k is the hardest thing to do. Current operational costs for drum corps total anywhere from 250k-more than 1M. To refit a corps with uniforms costs about $35,000. 50k is a lot, but I highly doubt that this was a "last minute" event. As I'm trying to plan a gala event myself, I can tell you that plans would've needed to be laid out well in advance of the corps departure. Whether the corps was willing to let on as much, I do not know. Speaking to reporters is tricky business. I think the OC knew what they were doing. Peace. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crassissimo Posted July 24, 2009 Share Posted July 24, 2009 (edited) Why is it that just discussing this topic is "trash talk"?I find that absurd. Agreed. "Trash talk" is a poor choice of words. But, I can admit I half agree with Madrid's final paragraph. This comes from a typically stubborn mouth. There needs to be that balance he talks about in order for this activity to flourish... but voices on here, IMO, do not directly affect true lives as much every one thinks or as much as a Director's actions do. We're the small mob of angry activists who make a stink but never win. People believe our words are justified but won't stand behind us when we ask for answers to questions or cry for change because to those outsiders it looks too "radical" or too much of an improbable feat to accomplish. Call us the PETA of DCP. With that said: I love meat. Edited July 24, 2009 by Crassissimo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Posted July 24, 2009 Share Posted July 24, 2009 To those that donated, thank you for doing your part to sustain this beautiful activity. To those that sit and pass judgment, thank you for presenting compelling arguments and ideas for the group. The world needs both. But always remember when you get on here and raise a stink, your words are affecting real world people that are already working very hard to fix the things that you are shaking a finger at. I think this is the type of response for which many of us "raising a stink" are looking: an insider's perspective with factual evidence explaining what is going on with these corps and reassuring us that there is some intelligence at the helm. All too often we'll get inaccurate or misguided information about struggling corps from people like ilovedc2 who just defend corps (seemingly) blindly and only for the sake of defending corps. Not all corps are worthy of blind defense. I would say most are not. This has been proven in the past. I, for one, feel better about OC's situation going forward because there have been multiple people who have said "I'm in-the-know with this organization, and things are ok" and almost none that have said "I'm in-the-know with this organization, and things are NOT ok". I understand that people who post like that irritate a lot of people on here because they're 'hiding behind the internet', but there is often a lot of truth in what those people are saying. The caveat is that I, personally, am taking those people on good faith that they're not outright lying. I'm willing to hope that there's not too much of that going on because it does nothing to benefit the activity. I should probably know better than to believe that everyone will put the good of the activity above making themselves look good, but at least for today, I'm encouraged. Agreed. "Trash talk" is a poor choice of words. But, I can admit I half agree with Madrid's final paragraph. This comes from a typically stubborn mouth. There needs to be that balance he talks about in order for this activity to flourish... but voices on here, IMO, do not directly affect true lives as much every one thinks or as much as a Director's actions do. We're the small mob of angry activists who make a stink but never win. People believe our words are justified but won't stand behind us when we ask for answers to questions or cry for change because to those outsiders it looks too "radical" or too much of an improbable feat to accomplish. Call us the PETA of DCP.With that said: I love meat. I don't fully understand your analogy. I get that me expressing my opinion on a dumb message board is pretty insignificant, but hopefully the collective DCP voice can reach those that make decisions. For example, DCP asked "What is going on?" and OC responded "This is what happened and is happening". Additionally, hopefully some of the discussion on here will encourage parents of members to ask "what is the financial situation of this group before I sign up my kid and mail my check?" I think those type of interactions and influences can make discussions like this worthwhile and beneficial for the activity, as much as ilovedc2 would like to think otherwise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crassissimo Posted July 24, 2009 Share Posted July 24, 2009 I don't fully understand your analogy. I get that me expressing my opinion on a dumb message board is pretty insignificant, but hopefully the collective DCP voice can reach those that make decisions. Then you do understand it. It gets people thinking but I believe 95% of the people on here, when they hear questions and complaints, are too stubborn to actually allow it to affect real life decisions/actions/ or discussions. It may make some people true believers (parents, prospective members etc) but in reality, probably not many at all. For example there are probably 4 OC parents on this entire board who read this and probably all of them stand behind their children's corps because it is their child we are talking about here. There is probably one prospective OC member who is probably 15 years old and, in the end, will forget about this and just be thinking about their Finals placement and how cool it would be to be in their snareline. Those are some decision makers. The Director is also a decision maker and this voice has reached him. But, I am sure the DCP voice reached him last year too when there was probably a similar uproar about them going on tour without all of the necessary funds. It may have been a smaller scale uproar but I'm sure he heard about it. Was it completely taken to heart? Couldn't have been because they almost didn't have the necessary funds for tour again. In the end the only satisfaction people get out of argument threads are NOT real results to the problems they propose but instead, "I told you so" victories where what you predicted would happen if action was not taken, actually occurred. "I told you so" is what feeds this discussion board not problems being solved. That is my explanation as to why I do not think protest threads on this board really affect peoples decisions most of the time. Now is that to say these threads are useless? Absolutely NOT! Very few people take the content and truly think about it but every person counts! If you started a corps and it was equipped to march 150 members but only 40 people committed themselves to the corps, do you say, "eh... our full intention wasn't met, lets not put out this corps." I would sure hope not because you could be cheating 40 people out of a good experience. Every little bit counts whether its one person genuinely listening to an outcry or 400. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Posted July 24, 2009 Share Posted July 24, 2009 Then you do understand it.It gets people thinking but I believe 95% of the people on here, when they hear questions and complaints, are too stubborn to actually allow it to affect real life decisions/actions/ or discussions. It may make some people true believers (parents, prospective members etc) but in reality, probably not many at all. For example there are probably 4 OC parents on this entire board who read this and probably all of them stand behind their children's corps because it is their child we are talking about here. There is probably one prospective OC member who is probably 15 years old and, in the end, will forget about this and just be thinking about their Finals placement and how cool it would be to be in their snareline. Those are some decision makers. The Director is also a decision maker and this voice has reached him. But, I am sure the DCP voice reached him last year too when there was probably a similar uproar about them going on tour without all of the necessary funds. It may have been a smaller scale uproar but I'm sure he heard about it. Was it completely taken to heart? Couldn't have been because they almost didn't have the necessary funds for tour again. In the end the only satisfaction people get out of argument threads are NOT real results to the problems they propose but instead, "I told you so" victories where what you predicted would happen if action was not taken, actually occurred. "I told you so" is what feeds this discussion board not problems being solved. That is my explanation as to why I do not think protest threads on this board really affect peoples decisions most of the time. Now is that to say these threads are useless? Absolutely NOT! Very few people take the content and truly think about it but every person counts! If you started a corps and it was equipped to march 150 members but only 40 people committed themselves to the corps, do you say, "eh... our full intention wasn't met, lets not put out this corps." I would sure hope not because you could be cheating 40 people out of a good experience. Every little bit counts whether its one person genuinely listening to an outcry or 400. Ok, now those are valid points and I understand what you're saying. That makes a hell of a lot more sense than some dumb PETA analogy. DCPers suck at analogies in general. Probably because it's impossible to make analogies to drum corps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crassissimo Posted July 24, 2009 Share Posted July 24, 2009 (edited) Fine, I'll dumb it down for you... PETA has valid points. We're just too stubborn to change our ways to meet those points. We like meat too #### much. Angry mobs (some of them) on DCP also have valid points. Some people are just too stubborn to see a corps that made a mistake pay the consequences so that they can ACTUALLY learn from it... because they like their Home Team too #### much. Sorry, Your Majesty, I won't use analogies on threads that you read anymore. Edited July 24, 2009 by Crassissimo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Posted July 24, 2009 Share Posted July 24, 2009 But PETA doesn't present their arguments sensibly. They're largely dismissed at nutcase radicals who think that animals can talk. No one on DCP has dumped a can of red paint on Oregon Crusaders equipment truck... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crassissimo Posted July 24, 2009 Share Posted July 24, 2009 ... then ......... whose truck WAS that last night? okay okay. In actuality i really hope the kids finish strong this season and that they have a great time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ilovedc2 Posted July 24, 2009 Share Posted July 24, 2009 I think this is the type of response for which many of us "raising a stink" are looking: an insider's perspective with factual evidence explaining what is going on with these corps and reassuring us that there is some intelligence at the helm. All too often we'll get inaccurate or misguided information about struggling corps from people like ilovedc2 who just defend corps (seemingly) blindly and only for the sake of defending corps. Not all corps are worthy of blind defense. I would say most are not. This has been proven in the past.I, for one, feel better about OC's situation going forward because there have been multiple people who have said "I'm in-the-know with this organization, and things are ok" and almost none that have said "I'm in-the-know with this organization, and things are NOT ok". I understand that people who post like that irritate a lot of people on here because they're 'hiding behind the internet', but there is often a lot of truth in what those people are saying. The caveat is that I, personally, am taking those people on good faith that they're not outright lying. I'm willing to hope that there's not too much of that going on because it does nothing to benefit the activity. I should probably know better than to believe that everyone will put the good of the activity above making themselves look good, but at least for today, I'm encouraged. I don't fully understand your analogy. I get that me expressing my opinion on a dumb message board is pretty insignificant, but hopefully the collective DCP voice can reach those that make decisions. For example, DCP asked "What is going on?" and OC responded "This is what happened and is happening". Additionally, hopefully some of the discussion on here will encourage parents of members to ask "what is the financial situation of this group before I sign up my kid and mail my check?" I think those type of interactions and influences can make discussions like this worthwhile and beneficial for the activity, as much as ilovedc2 would like to think otherwise. Hey man thanks for adding to my profile and thanks for the nasty PM. YOU are the class act. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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