behold888 Posted July 27, 2009 Share Posted July 27, 2009 What was so wrong/bad/ineffective about Phantom's visual design before the changes? I mean, to me it seemed.. OK.. but tons of people were up in arms about it. I post this to learn, so please educate! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BoyWonder1911 Posted July 27, 2009 Share Posted July 27, 2009 Remember, they hired a new visual coordinator last year who helped them win an uncontested championship. That much is like...unprecedented.....unreal. If they don't do as well this year, oh well....they already made up for it last year. PR has not really ever been really strong in their visuals, according to history. Sure they had some awesome shows, 2003 was a nice one. Simple, but so beautiful and logical according to the music. When competition is that tough, and they see themselves falling more and more behind, you have to tweak your show in a way that could maximize your score, even if it may not be a popular move. These directors have been in the game for years and should know what they're doing. What's important is that the students have a good time and compete hard, and gain good memories. BW Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wadep66 Posted July 27, 2009 Share Posted July 27, 2009 I'm not a show design expert, but I know what I am impressed with and what I can see as flaws. 1) Phantom's uniform does not lend itself to wide intervals and exposed drill. Look at the opening set. Even when the kids are in a straight line it doesn't look like it. THey have now put a pose in to disguise this. 2) The layering of the colorguard with the corps isn't integrated enough. Looks like several different ideas vs. a holistic one. 3) Jazz runs that are difficult to clean because of staggering between players or the alignment issue above. Why not just have people move AT THE SAME TIME? 4) The drill is often not clear. Instead of distinctive forms there is a lot of nebulous stuff that you can't really tell if it is correct or a mistake. It's hard for me to describe what it is about their design that to me just looks sloppy. This isn't the first year it has been an issue. There was some stuff in last years show that had these same issues but they were able to clean it up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
byline Posted July 27, 2009 Share Posted July 27, 2009 PR has not really ever been really strong in their visuals, according to history. Huh? How far back are you going in terms of their history? They've had some amazing visual programs going back to when I first started watching them in the late '70s. Their guard and flawless M&M were among the traits that made them so competitive back in the day. I'm a longtime Santa Clara fan, which probably tells you a lot about my tastes in programming. So the year I really started to enjoy Phantom was 1987, when they softened their approach and weren't quite so "in your face" about everything. But the "in your face" approach is the very thing that made them other people's favorite. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Feathers Up Posted July 27, 2009 Share Posted July 27, 2009 I'm not a show design expert, but I know what I am impressed with and what I can see as flaws.1) Phantom's uniform does not lend itself to wide intervals and exposed drill. Look at the opening set. Even when the kids are in a straight line it doesn't look like it. THey have now put a pose in to disguise this. 2) The layering of the colorguard with the corps isn't integrated enough. Looks like several different ideas vs. a holistic one. 4) The drill is often not clear. Instead of distinctive forms there is a lot of nebulous stuff that you can't really tell if it is correct or a mistake. It's hard for me to describe what it is about their design that to me just looks sloppy. This isn't the first year it has been an issue. There was some stuff in last years show that had these same issues but they were able to clean it up. BINGO!! My thoughts exactly. When they have "strentched" sets it just doesn't come off well with the unis. They really need more "condensed" sets to have more of a visual impact. They did that a lot last year and it worked. Something the Cadets do very well also. It was just hard to tell what the form was suppose to be when the intervals of the set where so far apart. Which also goes to your third point. Guard staging also seems to be a problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corpsband Posted July 27, 2009 Share Posted July 27, 2009 What was so wrong/bad/ineffective about Phantom's visual design before the changes?I mean, to me it seemed.. OK.. but tons of people were up in arms about it. I post this to learn, so please educate! This is a GREAT question. Gonna be very interesting to see what people come up with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
behold888 Posted July 27, 2009 Author Share Posted July 27, 2009 This is a GREAT question. Gonna be very interesting to see what people come up with. Yeah, definitely. I was puzzled because I felt their music was as good as those competing in the top 5 right now, but clearly judges thought differently and people are telling me it's the visual. As a pit guy, I gotta say I just didn't notice Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abbevillekid26 Posted July 27, 2009 Share Posted July 27, 2009 they don't have chairs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
behold888 Posted July 27, 2009 Author Share Posted July 27, 2009 (edited) they don't have chairs lmao... for real :tongue: and a devil of the wrong color: oh, just found this one: Edited July 27, 2009 by behold888 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NakedEye Posted July 27, 2009 Share Posted July 27, 2009 I'm not a show design expert, but I know what I am impressed with and what I can see as flaws.1) Phantom's uniform does not lend itself to wide intervals and exposed drill. Look at the opening set. Even when the kids are in a straight line it doesn't look like it. THey have now put a pose in to disguise this. 2) The layering of the colorguard with the corps isn't integrated enough. Looks like several different ideas vs. a holistic one. 3) Jazz runs that are difficult to clean because of staggering between players or the alignment issue above. Why not just have people move AT THE SAME TIME? 4) The drill is often not clear. Instead of distinctive forms there is a lot of nebulous stuff that you can't really tell if it is correct or a mistake. It's hard for me to describe what it is about their design that to me just looks sloppy. This isn't the first year it has been an issue. There was some stuff in last years show that had these same issues but they were able to clean it up. Yeah, you pretty much said it. With that uniform, they can get maximum readability out of any interesting shape they create. But they create very few interesting shapes. Instead there are all these little bits and pieces that sort of move around on their own and then connect into something larger. You can't tell where one piece ends and another begins, so it looks like a holy mess. How about some continuous forms that flow and reshape instead? I think they did a lot of that in the '93 drill that was so good. The "vibrating strings" idea is fun once or twice, but it pops up too often in this, and starting the whole show with mirrored diagonals? Disaster waiting to happen. I think even if they set it correctly, it looks off depending on where your seat is located and your viewing angle. Also, let's bag the storyline. Not needed at all. Just express the lush emotion of the music instead. When a b*tch slap is your big GE moment, something is not working. Some poor choices all around, and such a shame, as they really do sound great. I'm sure they'll learn from this for next year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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