Concerns with direction

[Lead]

I am amazed that a group that spent over half the show sitting in chairs...

Really? You find the horn player who spent the absolute most time sitting down and time him out. If he's over 5:30 sitting down I will ship you $500 on a silver platter. I'm guessing it's not even close to 45 seconds.

I'm not a BD mark at all, but incessant ranting BS from someone who just wants to spout off is just ridiculous.

[Lead]

I guess we weren't watching the same show then. Crown most certainly had "full group drill responsibilities", moreso than some of the other groups around them.

Agree. Starting and ending your show stretched goal line to goal line is a hell of a ballsy 'full group drill responsibility.'

[supersop]

Not missing the fact that they play well, loved listening to both but they did so with minimal visual responsibilities. I did not make up the system but it is built on combined ideas. I agree running for the sake of running is not good either but sitting in chairs or standing in forms for more than half the show does not put the same responsibility on the members

I will have to agree and disagree. I once again have to point out drill being designed on the horizontal as NOT LOOKING DEMANDING. I wholeheartedly agree that BD is working the system. I do not agree with your assessment of Crown.

Writing on the horizontal:

This has become the norm since Pyware. Designers keep everything nice, neat and tidy in reference to the front sideline. They can watch the drill move on their computer in real time. While there may be extreme visual demands in lateral movement, it is lost up to the box because there is NO off angle reference for speed other than counter motion. If drill writers sometimes tipped the screen on a 45 degree angle or anything other than 90 degrees, drill would be a ton more interesting, show off a ton more velocity and result in a more entertaining visual package for the viewer no matter where they are sitting.

BD still does a healthy amount of old school reshapes and follow the leader. This is very difficult ... just look at what BK was trying to achieve this year.

In the case of Crown, I think they moved a ton. Mostly symmetrical drill or segmented horizontal movement. They had massive field coverage with a healthy amount of verticle movement front to back. Only when they used counter motion and lateral movement (or rotating lines) did they really look like they were moving. This is a perception issue and not reality. This is where Studying Zingali over a couple bottles of scotch would improve the visual activity when it comes to drill design. Much harder to clean, less reference to the front sideline but far more visually appealing to the fans .... it literally sucks you in to the field and draws you to the focal points with easy and grace. In other words, the drill designer has to see how it really looks in their heads with real people marching the drill as they write it .. not relying on a computer to show pretty pictures without regard to transitions between pictures from move to move.

That said, changing design and getting away from the horizontal would actually require less movement to get greater effect. More demand on intervallic and form control, less geometric forms, yet creating more motion and excitement. This also exposes carriage and technique to a higher degree. Yes, moving less (in the right way) can create more demand depending on how the drill is written.

That was a mouthful, but that's all I'm sayin.

Edited August 9, 2009 by supersop

[JAZZER]

It would be a mute, unrelated point mind you.....

but what would be the visual caption score comparison of Star's Championship and this year's BD? '91 recaps anyone?

almost a 20 year perspective I suppose.

change in viewpoint scoring-wise.

interesting topic, hard to debate absoluteness of a visual demand versus musical demand versus combined.

[blue_devil_fan9903]

I'm still loving at the nerve some people have to say BD's show was easy. It just amazes me.

I want to see some of those people march around 240 bpm's while playing fff and do it clean.

[perc2100]

After watching Friday and Saturday at Lucas Field I have some things which concern me about the direction of the activity especially visually. I am amazed that a group that spent over half the show sitting in chairs would win and in fact recieve several perfect numbers in visual captions. My understanding of how the system is set up is that the groups are judged on what they do in combination. I would think Blue Devils should be able to play very well since they seldom marched and played together. Same can be said for Carolina Crown and farther down the pile Phantom Regiment. Honestly I thought there was a case for Phantom to not be in finals. I realise a 9 place drop from a championship season is substancial but I am not sure with out thier name they would have even stayed in finals!

Unfortunately I think DCI is following in the foot steps of BOA which has had a band that placed first one year and second the next that seldom marched and depended largely on electronis. I really do not think this is the direction we want to go. I would have thought all of Cadets Cavaliers and Vanguard would have been ahead of both Cadets and Crown and that Glassmen, Blue Knights Troopers and Colts could have been ahead of Phantom.

I would like to hear other people's opinions on this. This is not intended to defame or promote any specific corps

I find it EXTREMELY difficult to take anything seriously after reading the rhetoric that implies Blue Devils "spent over half the show sitting in chairs." Blue Devils show was roughly 13 minutes: are you seriously trying to say that they sat on chairs for 6.5 minutes?!

IMO everything after that moronic sentiment is invalid...

[perc2100]

A couple of points ...

BD marched their butts off ... They spent very little time sitting in the chairs, and much maneuvering around them.

Add to this the degree of demand that all the coordination of the chairs required. It was a logistical nightmare, and they made it work. The chairs fit into the program seamlessly.

No freaking kidding. It would've been VERY easy to use the chairs for the big effect moment, and then dump them to the front or shape them in the back unintegrated with the visual package. I think it takes pretty brilliant design to integrate the chairs as thoroughly as Blue Devils did.

Plus, BD pretty much redefined 'visual vocabulary' with some of the stuff they did with the chair (all of the different body shaping, marching around and on top of the chairs, etc). It's one thing to stand or sit on a chair and pose. It's another thing to hop up on the chair mid-drill move. It may have been a little cheesy at times (the multiple 1930 shapes with corps/chairs: side note, at the Texas show while we were watching on FN, a friend of mine said it looked like they were forming the temperature in TX: 130 degrees), but overall it was VERY effective.