Secession

[cowtown]

Folks here is what is happening within the next 5-10 years.... There will be a secession from DCI by SOME corps within the next 5-10 years and a new circuit will emerge. Who and how many corps follow remains to be seen....

1) Remember MENC????? They will play a major role in The convergence of DCI/BOA.

2) DCI will officially change it's name to The Marching Music Major Leagues or MML.

3) Instrumentation will continue to converge to band.

4) Attendance will continue to go down as it sounds like it did this year.

5) Open Class corps will be a thing of the past.

6) Retreat will resemble WGI more each year.

7) Due to poor attendance MML will not be able to continue to justify having a separate show for the Independent Bands and will move Independent Band Competition into Grand Nationals with Scholastic competition similar to a WGI setup.

8) George Hopkins will look like a "Legacy Fan" and try and fight these changes but it will be too late.

I agree with the overall idea…the more drum corps looks like marching band the less special, vital it becomes – it really ruins the product and their market

Plus people will notice that drum corps are not as elite compared to bands as they once were when seen side by side

Face it bands are getting better and corps are getting worse, look at all the slop at finals this year, I’m talking execution

[Phillygwm]

Rather than secession, I'd like to see DCI divide into two circuits--traditional and progressive. Say, for instance, traditional corps used only accoustic instrumentation, while the progressive corps could use electronics. Or, perhaps, traditional corps guards could only use flags and rifles and a maximum amount of non-equipment work time on the field during a show, while progressive corps guard could do whatever they wanted. Traditional corps could only use brass instruments, while progressive corps could expand into use of woodwinds (within reasonable limits). And so on.

I think George Hopkins (or maybe it was Jim Mason) proposed this a lot of years ago. Today, the problem you'd face is one of numbers: there are 22 "World Class" corps. How many ways do you want to slice the pie? Plus, what constitutes "traditional"? I suppose that depends when you marched, because the activity has continuously evolved over the almost 40 years DCI has been in existance. No amps? G Bugles? Marching tymps? Honor Guards? Inspection? And what happens if 17 of your 22 corps go in one direction?

DCA has the right idea regarding crowd enjoyment but one of the things I like most about DCI is the virtuosity. Your best DCA corps are not going to have the same degree of difficulty or execution as the top DCI corps. People have jobs, limited time to rehearse, etc.; it's just the nature of the beast.

Edited August 21, 2009 by Phillygwm

[BOBSMYTH]

Really???

How do you secede from yourself?

Have an out of body experience?

Seriously, there is not enough critical mass for any such idea to succeed.

The individual corps are independent organizations so, from that perspective, each group can pretty much do anything they want.

For example, one of them could stop being a drum corps and morph into a Tony award winning broadway stage production.

But, this thread implies that several groups who are the voting members of DCI are disappointed or disenchanted (or whatever) enough that they would stop being a member of their own organization and start a new organization so that the new organization can allow them to do what the old organization is perceived as not allowing them to do. Wouldn't it just be simpler to vote to have their own current organization do the things that they want their own organization to do?

[perc2100]

They may be ... the real point I was trying to make is that a majority of the DCI BOD is composed of directors of corps. Those directors have a fiduciary responsibility to their respective organizations. And IMHO, their responsibilities to their own organizations might sometimes be in conflict with the fiduciary responsibility as a Director of DCI.

I 100% agree with this

[BOBSMYTH]

So, since 1972 DCI has been "ruled" by the top corps. Now, the bylaws have changed a bit since then, but essentially the top corps still rule (with the exception of BD ... Dave Gibbs is not on the board, and maybe Crown? I don't know the current Board structure). And, there are some non-Directors that serve on the DCI BOD.

...

IMHO, I think that's the "big change" that DCI should make ... a restructure of the Board. THEN, impartially deal with the issues.

The DCI Board was restructured in January 2008. All of the World Class corps are now voting members who then elect a board of 9 people - 6 corps directors and 3 at-large directors.

The voting members have the power to vote on changes to the by-laws of the orgaization and on any and all competitive issues - including rule changes.

The Board is responsible for overseeing the business of DCI.

Dave Gibbs of the Blue Devils was actually one of the 6 directors elected to the Board in the first year transition to the new structure. The only reason he is not on the Board at this time is that he chose not to run for re-election.

edit for spelling

Edited August 22, 2009 by BOBSMYTH

[zentropa]

Correct me if I'm wrong but I don't think DCI is forcing corps to use amps, mics, bass guitars, synths or even three valve horns.

For the most part, it's the corps staff that make those decisions, DCI just allows it. If some corps wanted to march their tympani I'm sure they could.

I'm pretty sure drum corps is what it is today because that's what the people involved want it to be so the only secession I can foresee would be some of the fans.

[tommyfromhowardst]

Rather than secession, I'd like to see DCI divide into two circuits--traditional and progressive. Say, for instance, traditional corps used only accoustic instrumentation, while the progressive corps could use electronics. Or, perhaps, traditional corps guards could only use flags and rifles and a maximum amount of non-equipment work time on the field during a show, while progressive corps guard could do whatever they wanted. Traditional corps could only use brass instruments, while progressive corps could expand into use of woodwinds (within reasonable limits). And so on.

Of course, this will never happen, but I can dream. At least this type of division would offer something for everybody.

Baseball and Cricket? Football and Rugby? Plugged and unplugged? Coke and Pepsi???

I like it.

[tommyfromhowardst]

Correct me if I'm wrong but I don't think DCI is forcing corps to use amps, mics, bass guitars, synths or even three valve horns.

For the most part, it's the corps staff that make those decisions, DCI just allows it. If some corps wanted to march their tympani I'm sure they could.

I'm pretty sure drum corps is what it is today because that's what the people involved want it to be so the only secession I can foresee would be some of the fans.

It's not a force as much as a take away. The corps has every right not to use any electrics, basses, etc., but their GE and visual score will suffer. I know, it's maddening the rules change year after year after year. Corps Staff=DCI. Same people. Plus some guy behind the guy stuff.

Ya' know how drum corps grew as it did? It was the manufacturers. Since the 20's after the war there were a lot of vets---VFW and AL posts sprang up overnight. Most had an American flag squad which grew to rifles a couple of horns and drums. The "Harold Hills" from instrument and uniform manufacturers tapped into this (big time) and traveled from post to post outfitting everyone with drum corps gear. $$$$$ Soon it was "hey, Post xxxx is kickin' our #####--we need more members and more stuff." Competition grew. Rumor has it there were more than 1,000 corps at one point--amazing considering there are less than 50 today. There were just over 450 when I started marching. Anyway over the years the manufacturers came up with pistons and rotary valves and baritones and lighter rifles (for those 6's) marching timps---all the cool stuff to make music and shows. I call them the quiet concern.

Over the years a lot of the manufacturers have changed and drum corps doesn't account for much of their bottom line anymore but it's still good advertising for them. So drum corps might not be exactly where the fans want it today as one might think. The manufacturers were just a part.

[3rd_Star_Brigade]

Seriously, there is not enough critical mass for any such idea to succeed.

The individual corps are independent organizations so, from that perspective, each group can pretty much do anything they want.

For example, one of them could stop being a drum corps and morph into a Tony award winning broadway stage production.

But, this thread implies that several groups who are the voting members of DCI are disappointed or disenchanted (or whatever) enough that they would stop being a member of their own organization and start a new organization so that the new organization can allow them to do what the old organization is perceived as not allowing them to do. Wouldn't it just be simpler to vote to have their own current organization do the things that they want their own organization to do?

I don't know. My feeling is that a more traditional circuit will be born from the ashes of DCI after the move to MML, which I really think is going to happen. It's the clear and present goal of DCI to move beyond all limits placed on it artistically (not necessarily band).

However, I doubt that all corps are going to follow this move. Especially the Troopers and Pioneer.

DCI might still exist if and when there is a circuit that involves the secession of the top 6 corps from DCI, in an effort to speed the "artistic growth" of the activity beyond its original genre. Hop has talked of this before, and the rumor mill has been turning of closed door meetings of these directors and the fear of the economic collapse of DCI due to oversight of signed contracts. These rumors, of course, remain to be seen, but as they follow the pattern of thought on secession, I thought they were significant to note. The only problem with this is an absence of many members of the BOD. Would the circuit fold upon itself? Who knows.

So, I do see why there might be reasons on both sides for a split. Also, the overall goal of a select demographic of directors is convergence. Why would they want to separate themselves and their voice to be an independent Summer Band? Not financially secure. Also, the creation of a new circuit by traditionalists voices in the DCI Member Corps would instill a level of uncertainty or instability that most would fear might fold the corps.

Thus, even if traditionalists held a majority opinion among DCI corps, the fear of creating their own circuit or being cut from money generated from World Class shows would keep them in line.

[zentropa]

It's not a force as much as a take away. The corps has every right not to use any electrics, basses, etc., but their GE and visual score will suffer. I know, it's maddening the rules change year after year after year. Corps Staff=DCI. Same people. Plus some guy behind the guy stuff.

Ya' know how drum corps grew as it did? It was the manufacturers. Since the 20's after the war there were a lot of vets---VFW and AL posts sprang up overnight. Most had an American flag squad which grew to rifles a couple of horns and drums. The "Harold Hills" from instrument and uniform manufacturers tapped into this (big time) and traveled from post to post outfitting everyone with drum corps gear. $$$$$ Soon it was "hey, Post xxxx is kickin' our #####--we need more members and more stuff." Competition grew. Rumor has it there were more than 1,000 corps at one point--amazing considering there are less than 50 today. There were just over 450 when I started marching. Anyway over the years the manufacturers came up with pistons and rotary valves and baritones and lighter rifles (for those 6's) marching timps---all the cool stuff to make music and shows. I call them the quiet concern.

Over the years a lot of the manufacturers have changed and drum corps doesn't account for much of their bottom line anymore but it's still good advertising for them. So drum corps might not be exactly where the fans want it today as one might think. The manufacturers were just a part.

Interesting, thanks, really.

I don't see how the GE scores could suffer by refusing to do something that a lot of fans hate.

I think drum corps today is probably where the parent type fans want to it be but I get the feeling, a lot of drum corps vets dislike the recent changes, I can relate.

I remember my first drum corps show and seeing for the first time a 2 valve horn close up, they were so weird and I had no idea how they worked but wanted one so I went to a winter camp about a year later. When finally got my G bugle, it was like Excalibur, I loved it. I remember bringing it to school and showing it around, everyone in my band wanted to look at it. A couple years later I was told that my own corps was pushing for the 3 valve G horns. Not because they really wanted them but because our horns were already pretty beat up and they didn't want to order a new line of soon to be obsolete bugles. I was 18 and already ###### off about the direction of drum corps. If we had moved to the new 3 valve horns, I would not have left the corps though, at least they were still G horns and thereby weird enough to keep me interested. Later, as more corps moved to Bb I stopped going to shows and I was really ###### when they started calling them trumpets. "Trumpets" yuck, it's still like nails on a chalkboard to me. I think it was about 10 years before I attended another DCI event. Anyway, that's my story, but...

I think it's important not to forget what the real purpose of drum corps is and unfortunately it isn't my entertainment. That's on the list but maybe 8th 9th in priority.

It's really about providing an experience that will benefit the marching members, not the fans (like me) or the staff or even DCI, however that happens.

So when I hear people (or myself) whine about corps not playing the right kind of music or, playing the right horn, I have to remind myself of that it's not about me anymore.

I don't know this for a fact but I think while most marching members think old drum corps is pretty cool, they are probably happy with what it's become though tastes will still vary. If that is the case, it's pretty unlikely IMO that you'd find a corps willing leave DCI, even if a corps director wanted to.

In reality, DCI's new rules are liberating, corps can now be about as dorky as they want to be and that is probably the way it should be.