Jeff Ream Posted August 26, 2009 Share Posted August 26, 2009 Endorsements seem to be really important these days. It seems that when a corps changes manufacturers, it is connected to one of their instructors being endorsed by someone, not because it is the best equipment. It isn't just drum corps either, I had a high school instructor sell me a ton of mallets cheap because he couldn't use them anymore now that he was endorsed by someone else.I remember at finals last year, as the other corps were leaving the field the percussion section of Phantom was gathered for photos with a Dynasty banner and that picture now appears in their ads in DCI Today and probably elsewhere. Having a high profile drum corps use your equipment is important to these companies' marketing efforts. Whether they have influenced rules I'll leave to other to speculate. exactly. Remember when Crossmens line was hot and boom, people started using Premier. Cadets were all over Pearl ads back in the day. Cassella and Innovative? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrunchyTenor Posted August 26, 2009 Share Posted August 26, 2009 (edited) I don't normally post, but I've seen this theory pop up a couple of times and I have to say this is utterly preposterous. The companies - all of them - merely react to the demand of the market - in these cases the market is the drum corps who are coming to the companies asking for the gear, not the other way around. Even though this has already been responded to, I have to reiterate that simply waiting for the corps, or bands, to ask for something is a great way to exit the musical instrument business in a hurry. Why else would they have R&D and marketing departments? They have nothing to do with any of the rule changes short of confirming what was/is possible - and of course in some cases saying "Great News!" when it appears a new segment may open - ask a director who was involved with the rule change petitions. You really believe there is no lobbying by equipment manufacturers? In the case of electronics the high school, indoor and college groups were purchasing all of this gear (and Bb horns) long before any of the drum corps were using them. DCI is trying to stay current with what the rest of the marching market is doing to keep themselves relevant to a new, plugged-in audience - not to increase sales of their sponsors. Bb/F brass has been around for centuries. Marching bands have been using amplification and electronics for decades. Doesn't it seem odd that the any-key rule and amplification rule, and now the electronic rule, passed within 6 years of each other? Even at that - the changes you're talking about were/are driven by the design staffs of the various corps - not DCI! ALL of these designers have been using this gear in their HS/College programs for years - and many of them have complained "How is it possible that I can produce more sounds, volume, and therefore effect in my HS band than my drum corps!?!" Instructors used to be able to figure out how to produce those effects without electronics. If they can't answer your theoretical question, maybe they aren't as creative as you give them credit. If a show designer believes that they need a fully operational jet engine on the field to produce the effect they're looking for you can be assured they'll fight for that - no matter how preposterous or activity-changing it may be. But in your eyes I guess that won't happen since Boeing isn't a sponsor...yet. Why would they need a jet engine when they can just press a key on a synth? BTW, have you ever listened to 91 SCV? A great accomplishment in creatively produced helicopter sounds. Nobody lobbied the rules congress to allow helicopters. The percussion staff just figured it out. It appears you honestly believe this conspiracy theory - which is quite shocking. It is ill-conceived, ill-informed, and potentially libelous. This is band - not a special-interest-fueled congress./steps back into the darkness Trust me, I'm not the only one. But I'll grant you your opinion, sans the attempted insults. Don't you find it strange to see so many changes made in a relatively short time span that would benefit one company in particular, especially when all of this technology had existed parallel to drum corps for decades? Garry in Vegas Edited August 26, 2009 by CrunchyTenor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mug663 Posted August 26, 2009 Share Posted August 26, 2009 Even though this has already been responded to, I have to reiterate that simply waiting for the corps, or bands, to ask for something is a great way to exit the musical instrument business in a hurry. Why else would they have R&D and marketing departments? That's a pretty short-sighted alternative to my statement. The companies certainly do R&D activities above and beyond the intermittent requests from the drum corps. In my response I'm only speaking to these specific instances that the driving force in USING these items is/was the performing orgs, not the companies. The "drum corps market" is a misnomer - it is a very, very small part of the entire marching market. The drum corps assist in design, the high schools drive the demand. You really believe there is no lobbying by equipment manufacturers? In the way that you are suggesting? No. Are they in support of the changes? You bet. Bb/F brass has been around for centuries. Marching bands have been using amplification and electronics for decades. Doesn't it seem odd that the any-key rule and amplification rule, and now the electronic rule, passed within 6 years of each other? Again, I believe this is DCI and the directors racing to keep up with what the audiences (arguably) want. You, or the rest of the DCP world, may not agree with it, but based on the BoD votes it can be said that this is the direction that the majority of the corps directors believe the activity should be heading. I believe it is merely coincidental that one company in particular can meet the needs of most of the major rule changes over the last 10 years. If you want to point fingers at electronics manufacturers, I'm pretty sure Roland had the most to gain from their addition as they weren't even allowed in the door before this year. Instructors used to be able to figure out how to produce those effects without electronics. If they can't answer your theoretical question, maybe they aren't as creative as you give them credit.Why would they need a jet engine when they can just press a key on a synth? BTW, have you ever listened to 91 SCV? A great accomplishment in creatively produced helicopter sounds. Nobody lobbied the rules congress to allow helicopters. The percussion staff just figured it out. And Cavaliers 04 had a great gunshot/ricochet sound, and BD's train, and so on and so on... I don't equate using synths with a lack of creativity. I should mention, btw, that I'm not really a fan of the synth. They seem to be a great way to "synth"etically (sorry for that...) boost a corps' low end...what ever happened to playing loud, tubas?!? I would say synths increase creative ability in design, but decrease (but don't eliminate) creative necessity in execution - that's for sure. Perhaps that could be justified by saying now that the staff doesn't have to spend time figuring out how to create an effect they can spend more time teaching the members how to be great musicians - not sound effects guys. Trust me, I'm not the only one. But I'll grant you your opinion, sans the attempted insults. Don't you find it strange to see so many changes made in a relatively short time span that would benefit one company in particular, especially when all of this technology had existed parallel to drum corps for decades? Strange? No. Coincidental. The reality is that the marching market is miniscule for electronics and PA gear. Sure there are tons of groups buying/using the stuff, but in comparison to the rest of the market for these products these purchases are a barely noticeable drop in the bucket. Follow the money? There's not much to follow... As for the length of time the technology has been around - that begs the question why didn't Yamaha/Roland/Peavy try and force their electronics agenda on poor, helpless DCI sooner? If they're supposedly raking in the dough now, how many years of potential income did they just let fall by the wayside!?!?! Fools!! I know it's easy to point the fingers at these big, bad companies and scream "You're ruining our activity!" There's a few people on here that I'm pretty sure are ready to grab pitchforks and torches... Keep in mind these evil, manipulative organizations are made of people just like you and me - musicians, educators, former marching members, fans - not lobbyists. I could go on and on and on...but obviously you've made up your mind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MoonHill Posted August 26, 2009 Share Posted August 26, 2009 That's a pretty short-sighted alternative to my statement. The companies certainly do R&D activities above and beyond the intermittent requests from the drum corps. In my response I'm only speaking to these specific instances that the driving force in USING these items is/was the performing orgs, not the companies. The "drum corps market" is a misnomer - it is a very, very small part of the entire marching market. The drum corps assist in design, the high schools drive the demand. The Drum Corps Market, in terms of selling equipment to drum corps, is a very small part of the entire marching market. It's pretty much THE ENTIRE advertising aspect of the marching market, however. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mug663 Posted August 26, 2009 Share Posted August 26, 2009 The Drum Corps Market, in terms of selling equipment to drum corps, is a very small part of the entire marching market. It's pretty much THE ENTIRE advertising aspect of the marching market, however. True - but as I said, the high schools still drive the demand. The use of drum corps in advertising helps create some of that demand, but it isn't quantifiable. In many markets what the local college is playing actually has more influence on purchase decisions than any drum corps advertisement ("If it's good enough for the 'Huskers, it's good enough for me!"). Using drum corps in advertising is just one part of a multi-pronged, multi-level marketing strategy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
perc2100 Posted August 26, 2009 Share Posted August 26, 2009 There was no reason listed. What reason would you like to make up?Here's mine... Electronic amplification comes right from the devil. And then I would cite Mr. Ozzy Osborne as an example. An alternate citation could also come from Waterboy's mamma... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
perc2100 Posted August 26, 2009 Share Posted August 26, 2009 I could care less if they like my opinion or not, but apparently you seem quite concerned with mine. Concerned? More like amused. It's humorous to me to see people go SO upset about these rules changes when there is absolutely nothing they can do about it (sort of stop paying attention to DCI). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
perc2100 Posted August 26, 2009 Share Posted August 26, 2009 There's a big difference between being "plugged-in" and being manipulative. Unless you know, for a fact, that someone from Yamaha specifically had any influence on the passing of a rule - as the passing, not subsequent execution, is what we are discussing - please enlighten the rest of us. Otherwise these are just baseless accusations. At NAMM a year or two ago I suggested this insane "theory" to some Yamaha people I know, and they literally laughed hysterically and rolled their eyes. The notion that people actually even remotely believe that there are instrument manufacturers/companies that deal with corps directors and say "if you can get X rule passed we'll all be rich!" is crazy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geneseo_bari_87 Posted August 26, 2009 Share Posted August 26, 2009 The Roots (the band on Jimmy Fallon's late night show on NBC) has a sousaphone player. The sousaphone is sexy again. Very good! Here's another: It's really hard to hold a beer in your left hand while you play a "marching tuba". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cowtown Posted August 26, 2009 Share Posted August 26, 2009 What was the reason for not allowing amplification prior to 2004? common sense personally, I’m finding the over abundance of corporate sponsors annoying Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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