What can we do to improve our corps'?

[Jeff Ream]

I wanted to thank Jay for being so kind to explain all of it for us. Now- it makes perfect sense. You need a good, competent business model, you need to show you're not some kind of fly-by-night Svengali/Rasputin type of operator (we've had enough of those- they seriously arouse my ire- let's leave it at that!), and really, when I thought of it at work, let's look at what you can do with 35 people from your 10,000 person burg.

Let's say... a nice guard of 8 people. (Most would hope for half this, I'd guess...)

20 horns- 2-4 Contra/4-6 Bari/4-6 Mello/ 8 Tpt/Sop... I think that's a reasonable little horn line that would be agile and capable, IF they all listen, do not overextend and try to be superheroes, and the arrangements fit the individuals like gloves)

Leaving say... a front percussion ensemble of 7 to handle all that would entail. I know that no amount of Strohs and fast-talk or money will convince Jeff to carry a triple Bass rig and run like a madman/beast in my corps while playing it, even a hypothetical one. I'm not a percussion expert, but I'd think seven could cover necessary percussive duties. If not, I'll trade you one or two horns. Would that help?

You could do some very creative and exciting things with a small unit like this, but it would also rely on a very well-trained group that understood their individual responsibilities and busted their humps to make it happen to carry this off. A smaller group would really be stretched to make something happen on a meaningful level outdoors. I'm buying into things now, thanks to hearing some clear explanations from thoughtful people and having some time to think carefully about it.

let's clarify one thing:

I, unlike my Dad, wouldn't drink Stroh's if you paid me

[Jeff Ream]

BINGO

Granted, A few show sponsors had some concerns with a few corps, But it was the voting member corps and executive board that thought it was time to set standards for corps that wanted to participate in the DCA.

Lets not forget, In dealing with rules that deal with participation in the DCA,we have only ONE rule in the "competitive" column (size), The rest of these rules are all having to do with the organization itself.

These rules were put in place to HELP corps, not hurt corps.

Anyone can have an all-age corps and prosper as an organization, all DCA is saying, in order to participate in the DCA circuit, You will need a minimum of 35 members

Pretty simple

again, not disagreeing. I thank you for being cnadid, as to be honest, others from DCA said about the show sponsors part only.

[BigW]

let's clarify one thing:

I, unlike my Dad, wouldn't drink Stroh's if you paid me

LOL! I learn something new every day! Anyhow, I don't think any amount of your favorite adult beverage would get you into a triple bass rig of death, anyhow. They're kind of like Euphonium Bugles to horn players.... too big, heavy, unwieldy cumbersome, and hard on the back.

[Skydrummer9]

First of all, thank you everyone for your continuing input and contribution.

I would like to take a moment and sway the topic a little. Me being a drummer and not knowing my ### from a hole in the ground when it comes to bugles have a question. Listening to recordings from the past and the present, I have to say that the sound of the valve rotor bugles are always good to me. Not knocking on 2 and 3 valve horns in anyway but for some reason I always heard a more "elegant" flow with the valve rotors. I wonder with the ever changing style of music that corps perform on the field, I wonder what it would be like if a corps were to field an arsenal of valve rotors? I know that it is almost impossible with this day and age seeing as how a majority of corps are switching to B-Flat brass as opposed to staying with G Bugles. Just remembering some things various horn players have told me throughout my years in Drum Corps, the valve rotors had a fraction of the hardware that most horns have now and that they were worlds lighter. I can attest to the lighter part when i held a valve rotor contra bass myself and a 3 valve contra bass. It felt to me like comparing Premier bass drums and Yamaha bass drums. Premier felt worlds lighter compared to Yamaha. I would like to get some honest insight on this.

[JimF-LowBari]

The 35 minimum member rule is just one of a number of rules designed to help the DCA determine if a new or returning corps meets the standards set forth by the voting member corps in order to participate in the DCA circuit.

etc, etc

Jay

Bush

Thanks for the info, never even thought the 35 rule was connected to the DCA evaluation standards. Only heard it in connection with complaints at shows so my knowledge was lacking (like that's a surprise ).

<filed under "What I Learned Today".>

Oh yeah... Jeff caught me drinking a Bud at DCA and said his dad would be disappointed.

[BigW]

I played on a Piston-Rotor horn for 4 of the 6 seasons I actively competed. I can tell you it's not the way to go.

One advantage they did have, at least for the larger horns, was that they were easier to hold and aim on-field. They were lighter as well, and better-balanced.

But the Timbre was... well, I told people back in period it was like sticking a mouthpiece into a trash can and tootin' away.

Yes- a good brass player can stick a mouthpiece into a garden hose with a funnel on the end and make something decent some out the other end, but it took a lot of work and effort to get a hornline to play with a semblance of good discipline and some kind of coherent tonal center. Certain pitches really needed to be favored to get things to come out right.

Also, the rotor assemblies and linkages were cheaply built. When they worked, they work very well. Sometimes, for no expicable reason, they'll stop working. You disassemble them (preferably in a clean environment because you couldn't have one speck of dirt anywhere near the rotor in any way, shape, or form), clean them thoroughly, oil the willies out of them (they love a lot of oil), carefully reassemble them...

And sometimes they'll start working again some time in the next five minutes for reasons I can't tell you. They'll stay frozen, you set it down for 5 minutes on your car trunk, and then it works fine when you try and show your friends you can't get it to work.

I could see having one for fun, and for having a go at DCA I and E with it, but they're really not an answer in today's environ. The horns are better made, better centered, and a lot more reliable.

I'd dread to know how much Kanstul would want for a limited production Piston-Rotor bugle in G with quality construction, REAL plating, (not chrome plating!), a proper bore and bell design, and a rotor mechanizsm that would actually work properly all the time....

Jim- you just got an Ultra-Tone! Do you concur with what I think about those goofy old Olds Ultratones?

Look. I love those old horns like I love a '58 Edsel for their goofy looks and their quirks. I wouldn't mind having one in the garage for a sunny day, but not for a daily driver.

Edited April 21, 2010 by BigW

[JimF-LowBari]

Jim- you just got an Ultra-Tone! Do you concur with what I think about those goofy old Olds Ultratones?

Look. I love those old horns like I love a '58 Edsel for their goofy looks and their quirks. I wouldn't mind having one in the garage for a sunny day, but not for a daily driver.

Duratone my man.... the funky flat finish...

And back On Topic... In 78/79 Westshoremen and 79 Madison did Kentons "Granada Smoothie" which starts with a 16th note run. For the time it was a B-word and NOT fun with a piston/rotor horn. Horn I had was lighter but we had problems with some rotor linkages breaking. And if they froze up (like BigW said) there wasn't an easy way to take it apart to clean. It was unscrew the end cap, dump oil in it and hope like Hades that worked. If not, it was off to the repair shop.

[Fran Haring]

If you don't want a corps at a DCA show,,,Don't invite them. Simple as that.

Not quite as easy to do as that sounds, IMO.

I know of at least one corps that sponsored a show that was burned by a "no-show"..... the no-show corps was advertised as being part of the lineup and gave their assurances they would be there with a representive corps. Turned out the corps barely existed and had no chance of fielding a competitive corps that summer. But at that time, there were no rules in place (none that I know of, at least... I could be wrong here) to keep that from happening, for all intents and purposes. Now there are.

I agree with a minimum-size requirement.

Fran

[JimF-LowBari]

Not quite as easy to do as that sounds, IMO.

I know of at least one corps that sponsored a show that was burned by a "no-show"..... the no-show corps was advertised as being part of the lineup and gave their assurances they would be there with a representive corps. Turned out the corps barely existed and had no chance of fielding a competitive corps that summer. But at that time, there were no rules in place (none that I know of, at least... I could be wrong here) to keep that from happening, for all intents and purposes. Now there are.

I agree with a minimum-size requirement.

Fran

Without going into the size requirement I'll just say that DCA having corps go thru an evaluation process was one of the better ideas. Doesn't ensure a corps will be able to make all shows but cuts down on the chances. But I have no idea what the options and/or rules are if a corps doesn't pass an evaluation (allowed to do exhibition?).

[Jeff Ream]

Not quite as easy to do as that sounds, IMO.

I know of at least one corps that sponsored a show that was burned by a "no-show"..... the no-show corps was advertised as being part of the lineup and gave their assurances they would be there with a representive corps. Turned out the corps barely existed and had no chance of fielding a competitive corps that summer. But at that time, there were no rules in place (none that I know of, at least... I could be wrong here) to keep that from happening, for all intents and purposes. Now there are.

I agree with a minimum-size requirement.

Fran

more than one host over the years