My Problem with G7

[luvah]

This G7 thing is not about getting the best 7 corps to do special things to promote the activity. Its that 7 of the corps directors want to take drum corps in a different direction, and to make sure that their corps remain elite for the forseable future.

There are not 7 elite corps. This proposal comes after a year where 13 corps scored over 85. Carolina Crown made the top 2, Troopers made finals, and the defending champions finished 9th. There is more parody now among the top 15 corps than ever. There is no reason to stratify 7 of the corps as above the others, except in the conflicted interest of some of the corps directors.

There are many new challengers making it tough on the old guard to remain at the top competitively. So this G7 proposal seems like a way to improve recruiting for the G7 corps, to keep them elite, in an environment where its not guaranteed that the Cadets, for example, will even make finals every year.

And what would we do if the Cadets didn't find enough talented horn players to make finals! Should we change the rules to make sure corps like the Cadets have a recruiting edge over the others?

When I see so many corps putting quality shows on the field, it indicates to me that there is health and strength in the activity, and that this is not an appropriate time to make radical changes to the structure of DCI.

Luvah

Edited June 4, 2010 by luvah

[BRASSO]

This G7 thing is not about getting the best 7 corps to do special things to promote the activity. Its that 7 of the corps directors want to take drum corps in a different direction, and to make sure that their corps remain elite for the forseable future.

There are not 7 elite corps. This proposal comes after a year where 13 corps scored over 85. Carolina Crown made the top 2, Troopers made finals, and the defending champions finished 9th. There is more parody now among the top 15 corps than ever. There is no reason to stratify 7 of the corps as above the others, except in the conflicted interest of some of the corps directors.

There are many new challengers making it tough on the old guard to remain at the top competitively. So this G7 proposal seems like a way to improve recruiting for the G7 corps, to keep them elite, in an environment where its not guaranteed that the Cadets, for example, will even make finals every year.

And what would we do if the Cadets didn't find enough talented horn players to make finals! Should we change the rules to make sure corps like the Cadets have a recruiting edge over the others?

When I see so many corps putting quality shows on the field, it indicates to me that there is health and strength in the activity, and that this is not an appropriate time to make radical changes to the structure of DCI.

Luvah

Once there becomes a subdivision in World Class, it is logical to presume that before too long, the top 4 or 5 wil be looking to financially shake down Corps 6-7 in the " permanent status " G-7. When gate receipts arn't what they expected, they could be expected to then begin to cannibalize themselves even further. They'd call Corps 5-7 " a drag on the REAL " TOP ACTS .... the top 3 or 4.... or some such. That's just another reason to be very leary of adopting any proposal that has the fingerprints of George Hopkins on it. If he would provide a death panel to half the Corps in Drum Corps, what makes people think that he wouldn't some day call for the dumping of a few more Corps in a G-7 configuration that HE'S primarily the architect of ? I wouldn't put my Corps fate in this guy's hands. EVER. His track record of success wth his previous proposals that were later adopted for the activity is positively gawdawful. If his new scheme for the activity is so dam good, why doesn't he just take a sabbatical from DCI for a year or two and go take his Corps out on this great vision of his ? We know why. He wants cover in case it blows up. That way, he'll have taken all the other competitors down with HIS Corps. I say, if he really thinks his proposal is good for Drum Corps, then go off on his own, and do it himself with HIS Corps first on a sabbatical leave from DCI. Leave his tinkering any more with the activitry alone. He's done enough damage to the vitality and health of the overall activity as it is.

Edited June 4, 2010 by BRASSO

[Bob984]

I agree with many of your points. The so-called "top seven" may have had some competitive success, but to indicate that they have always ruled the activity would be a stretch, and every one of them has had their "down" times. The Blue Devils were not a factor until 75. Although they have been the most successful and consistent corps competitively, even they struggled for 5th in 91. The Cadets were not a factor until 82. The Cavaliers were not a title contender in DCI until 1985.

SCV, the only corps to make every finals, had "struggling" years where they were 7th or 8th. Same with Phantom. Crown, although certainly successful, wasn't even an idea in the 70's. The Bluecoats, although they have beaten every corps at some point, have never even challenged for the title, and were not even a factor in the first 15 years of DCI.

I look at the exclusion of these corps as interesting, in comparison......

Madison Scouts.....2 time champion, many time crowd favorite, many time contender.....yes, they have struggled in recent

years, but now look to be well on the rebound and I expect them to be strong this summer.....long,

storied history

Troopers...........long, storied history....also on the rebound......contended for the title in early DCI years.......

strong crowd appeal.......

Blue Stars........nearly won DCI in early days.......long-time finalist who has rebounded solidly.........

Boston.............long, storied history........DCI "survivor" through many tough seasons, yet have never faltered

since returning to finals, and have been solid, and well-received by crowds everywhere.......

There are others in world class that have had their high and low points as well, but my point is that every one of the G7 have had times, in the DCI era, where they have had their down times. For the G7 corps to suddenly proclaim themselves as "the show" is a bit obnoxious. Even if I took last year's G7 performances......for me, only 4 of them had substantial musical products, which is what I lean towards, and I wouldn't have cared if I missed the other 3.

If they want to try something in addition to standard corps contests and run that product on a Sunday and see how it goes, I don't have a problem with it (though I think it will be short-lived when they realize it doesn't draw a gate). However, if they intend to have a new competitive division, with new rules, formats, etc, declaring themselves "the show", then I would recommend to the other 16 corps to do a clean break. With the 16 "doing drum corps", and the G7 can create their own league and do their own thing. However, I think that they are highly overestimating their popularity, and the appeal of their proposed product; not only to fans, but to members as well. We are certainly at a crossroads, and it is going to be interesting to see if things pull together, or if there is a split. Perhaps if the 16 would throw a curve and split from the seven, then they could legally get out of Lucas and get the title show back outside somewhere, and the G7 can do their indoor WGI/Band concept thing.

GB

[Scoutnout]

Once there becomes a subdivision in World Class, it is logical to presume that before too long, the top 4 or 5 wil be looking to financially shake down Corps 6-7 in the " permanent status " G-7. When gate receipts arn't what they expected, they could be expected to then begin to cannibalize themselves even further. They'd call Corps 5-7 " a drag on the REAL " TOP ACTS .... the top 3 or 4.... or some such. That's just another reason to be very leary of adopting any proposal that has the fingerprints of George Hopkins on it. If he would provide a death panel to half the Corps in Drum Corps, what makes people think that he wouldn't some day call for the dumping of a few more Corps in a G-7 configuration that HE'S primarily the architect of ? I wouldn't put my Corps fate in this guy's hands. EVER. His track record of success wth his previous proposals that were later adopted for the activity is positively gawdawful. If his new scheme for the activity is so dam good, why doesn't he just take a sabbatical from DCI for a year or two and go take his Corps out on this great vision of his ? We know why. He wants cover in case it blows up. That way, he'll have taken all the other competitors down with HIS Corps. I say, if he really thinks his proposal is good for Drum Corps, then go off on his own, and do it himself with HIS Corps first on a sabbatical leave from DCI. Leave his tinkering any more with the activitry alone. He's done enough damage to the vitality and health of the overall activity as it is.

Seems like you feel its all about HIM. Hey I dont like the guy either BUT he sure can run a corps and maintain it for many many years. If HE is all about HIM then WHY dont the other corps or G7 see it. IS he that powerful or are others that weak? If others didnt want what HE wants there wouldnt be an issue, would there. Cant put any of this on 1 person. If people didnt think HIS ideas were right for the activity they wouldnt FOLLOW!

[Scoutnout]

I agree with many of your points. The so-called "top seven" may have had some competitive success, but to indicate that they have always ruled the activity would be a stretch, and every one of them has had their "down" times. The Blue Devils were not a factor until 75. Although they have been the most successful and consistent corps competitively, even they struggled for 5th in 91. The Cadets were not a factor until 82. The Cavaliers were not a title contender in DCI until 1985.

SCV, the only corps to make every finals, had "struggling" years where they were 7th or 8th. Same with Phantom. Crown, although certainly successful, wasn't even an idea in the 70's. The Bluecoats, although they have beaten every corps at some point, have never even challenged for the title, and were not even a factor in the first 15 years of DCI.

I look at the exclusion of these corps as interesting, in comparison......

Madison Scouts.....2 time champion, many time crowd favorite, many time contender.....yes, they have struggled in recent

years, but now look to be well on the rebound and I expect them to be strong this summer.....long,

storied history

Troopers...........long, storied history....also on the rebound......contended for the title in early DCI years.......

strong crowd appeal.......

Blue Stars........nearly won DCI in early days.......long-time finalist who has rebounded solidly.........

Boston.............long, storied history........DCI "survivor" through many tough seasons, yet have never faltered

since returning to finals, and have been solid, and well-received by crowds everywhere.......

There are others in world class that have had their high and low points as well, but my point is that every one of the G7 have had times, in the DCI era, where they have had their down times. For the G7 corps to suddenly proclaim themselves as "the show" is a bit obnoxious. Even if I took last year's G7 performances......for me, only 4 of them had substantial musical products, which is what I lean towards, and I wouldn't have cared if I missed the other 3.

If they want to try something in addition to standard corps contests and run that product on a Sunday and see how it goes, I don't have a problem with it (though I think it will be short-lived when they realize it doesn't draw a gate). However, if they intend to have a new competitive division, with new rules, formats, etc, declaring themselves "the show", then I would recommend to the other 16 corps to do a clean break. With the 16 "doing drum corps", and the G7 can create their own league and do their own thing. However, I think that they are highly overestimating their popularity, and the appeal of their proposed product; not only to fans, but to members as well. We are certainly at a crossroads, and it is going to be interesting to see if things pull together, or if there is a split. Perhaps if the 16 would throw a curve and split from the seven, then they could legally get out of Lucas and get the title show back outside somewhere, and the G7 can do their indoor WGI/Band concept thing.

GB

You

are right as to the success of these other corps but even the dates you give show these corps have ruled the roost. You say BD not a factor till 75 , well that was 35 years ago and a few years after DCI was started. These corps have shaped the activity like it or not. No matter what people say here If the G7 were in one town and the other 16 in the same town. G7 would fill the place. Now I know people would say NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO...at least now BUT dont we see the seats filled more toward the end of a larger show that the beginning? YES WE DO. DAm I know people who plan their time to party, etc etc and what time to get to a stadium based on when someone is on and when the show gets better. Deny all you want thats how it is and has been for a long time. Of course not speaking for all. There are those who go and get bleecher Butt and are there for hours and hours.

[audiodb]

You are right as to the success of these other corps but even the dates you give show these corps have ruled the roost. You say BD not a factor till 75 , well that was 35 years ago and a few years after DCI was started. These corps have shaped the activity like it or not. No matter what people say here

OK. What you say here counts; what others say here doesn't. Got it!

If the G7 were in one town and the other 16 in the same town. G7 would fill the place.

....if the G7 were still the top 7. Should 2010 contest results have BAC, Blue Stars, Glassmen, BK, Troop, Colts and Academy as the top 7, where would the people go?

Now I know people would say NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO...at least now BUT dont we see the seats filled more toward the end of a larger show that the beginning? YES WE DO.

Which proves what? That too many people didn't leave time for traffic delays, and got to the show late? That kids from other corps come in to watch after they perform? That parking-lot warmups attract an audience, and no one is warming up late in the show? Or that it doesn't matter which corps is performing? Sometimes, non-G7 corps perform late in the lineup, to similarly-filled stands.

DAm I know people who plan their time to party, etc etc and what time to get to a stadium based on when someone is on and when the show gets better. Deny all you want thats how it is and has been for a long time. Of course not speaking for all. There are those who go and get bleecher Butt and are there for hours and hours.

And some people (young and old) just can't sit still for very long.

[Scoutnout]

OK. What you say here counts; what others say here doesn't. Got it!

....if the G7 were still the top 7. Should 2010 contest results have BAC, Blue Stars, Glassmen, BK, Troop, Colts and Academy as the top 7, where would the people go?

Which proves what? That too many people didn't leave time for traffic delays, and got to the show late? That kids from other corps come in to watch after they perform? That parking-lot warmups attract an audience, and no one is warming up late in the show? Or that it doesn't matter which corps is performing? Sometimes, non-G7 corps perform late in the lineup, to similarly-filled stands.

And some people (young and old) just can't sit still for very long.

Hey sorry but its the truth .

Of course everyone is entitled to an opinion , seems like you only want to hear yours though. And that traffic thing. come on are you serious. If people wanted to be there early they would camp out. Bittereness not needed for an opinion other than yours.

And I vowed not to get worked up here today...lmao...oh well its the passion of the activity i guess.

[GMichael1230]

Hey sorry but its the truth .

Of course everyone is entitled to an opinion , seems like you only want to hear yours though. And that traffic thing. come on are you serious. If people wanted to be there early they would camp out. Bittereness not needed for an opinion other than yours.

And I vowed not to get worked up here today...lmao...oh well its the passion of the activity i guess.

How many shows do you go to a year? Do you know how many people arrive late Friday night for Allentown every year due to work and parking ??

Your opinions are important but they are way off....

G

[GUARDLING]

Hey sorry but its the truth .

Of course everyone is entitled to an opinion , seems like you only want to hear yours though. And that traffic thing. come on are you serious. If people wanted to be there early they would camp out. Bittereness not needed for an opinion other than yours.

And I vowed not to get worked up here today...lmao...oh well its the passion of the activity i guess.

Hey , it's only Drum Corps and you are right. It is the passion. good or not it keeps it alive i think

[GUARDLING]

How many shows do you go to a year? Do you know how many people arrive late Friday night for Allentown every year due to work and parking ??

Your opinions are important but they are way off....

G

That show , traffic , parking..is a logistical nightmare