Sunrisers 2010 Announcement

[rayfallon]

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Keith, I agree. In the case of Sun, DCA and the larger organization there in had nothing to do with Sun's problems.

Sun's problems were/are many, but DCA wasn't one of them.

I don't think that DCA has been a negative factor in the decline of any of these corps. I do, though, have one question and I know that there are many answers but why has DCA not had the appeal for age-outs after DCI (including Open Class).

You can expend a whole bunch of energy proving that statement wrong and telling me all the things you assume I don't know but the simple fact is that with the number of kids who run through all these corps there should be a larger percentage sticking around, a la Renegades or Bushwackers of old.

There was a time when most Senior Corps players came from junior corps. I'm not seeing it now.

Oh by the way, I realize that I referred to one of my opinions as a simple fact. Oh well.

Edited June 13, 2010 by rayfallon

[Sayre Kulp]

I think the trick is to figure out what the corps that are growing are doing. Reading has been at the top of the pantheon since they got there. Cabs never seem to have a problem filling out there ranks. Hurricanes have been growing over the past few years. No one can miss how Alliance has been on the move. What are they doing that's working? (Rhetorical question from my standpoint.)

I think one thing that you'd find recurring in any of these success stories is that "success breeds success." If you can get a good nucleus doing the right stuff, more people will want to join you. Once you get the ball rolling, I dare say it should be easier to stay there. (Note: not saying it's easy, just that it should be easier than GETTING to that point.)

[G-horns]

I don't think that DCA has been a negative factor in the decline of any of these corps. I do, though, have one question and I know that there are many answers but why has DCA not had the appeal for age-outs after DCI (including Open Class).

You can expend a whole bunch of energy proving that statement wrong and telling me all the things you assume I don't know but the simple fact is that with the number of kids who run through all these corps there should be a larger percentage sticking around, a la Renegades or Bushwackers of old.

There was a time when most Senior Corps players came from junior corps. I'm not seeing it now.

Oh by the way, I realize that I referred to one of my opinions as a simple fact. Oh well.

Ray, I was thinking the same thing two pages ago, had a reply ready to go and decided not to post it since it wasn't specific to Sunrisers. I have to wonder if the junior corps crowd isn't interested in weekend warrior status because they are so burned out, aren't made aware of all-age or are otherwise dissuaded from even considering the option. Remember, back when you and I marched junior corps only a small percentage went on to senior corps but the number of junior participants was easily ten to twenty times what it is today. The percentage moving on to all-age may not have changed, the population of eligible junior members has definitely taken a nose dive.

[HBD]

It is a real shame that all the corps mentioned in this post have struggled this year. Being an educator that has taught many "extra curricular" activities, I can tell you it is hard to recruit kids to participate in anything that doesn't provide them instant and continuous gratification. By no means do I mean to group all youth into this category, however, many fit here. I think it is rare that you find anyone who give a multi year commitment to ANY activity. That makes every group on constant aggresive recruiting binge. Some do this better than others.

Sometimes I feel kids treat all activities like a video game. They play it till they have either "completed" it or become "Bored" with it. Then they buy another game. I find many treat life the same way. Commitment is rare, mastery of anything is nill. I think for the majority of youth, the days are gone where you will find them commiting to anything long term. That is something I believe that has sustained our activity for years. The relying on "returning vets." I think I read recently that the Troopers have no membership from the greater Casper Wyoming area. I could be wrong and I am sure that probably has changed since. That seems almost impossible to imagine, but it happens more times than not I am afraid.

Then you compound that with the state of the state, (NY). This is where the adults have to make tough choices. Either play all weekend, or work to support or sustain a way of life. This can't possibly make it easier on corps who might rely on the older or more mature generation who tend to lead others through their example.

Many drum corps are finding it very difficult I am sure. Their are activities ALL over that are finding difficult.

Good luck to all the corps who are experience tough times. I wish them much luck in their rebuilding process or the different paths they chose to give their members an enjoyable experience.

VERY well said

[sunbrass22]

THE SUNRISERS did not keep the alumni from 2007 who retired that year. informed of what shape the corps was in, i must of asked the corps on the alumni site, how the corps was making out. I never got a reponce. I know that some of the members from the 2007 class A champs, would have come to help fill out the ranks. Thats what happened in 2007.

[rayfallon]

THE SUNRISERS did not keep the alumni from 2007 who retired that year. informed of what shape the corps was in, i must of asked the corps on the alumni site, how the corps was making out. I never got a reponce. I know that some of the members from the 2007 class A champs, would have come to help fill out the ranks. Thats what happened in 2007.

2007 was a very special situation... there was the unique combination of Rich Guillen. a very special Sunriser as well as writer and teacher being the brass guy, an alumni site that had a large active following and a small group of guys who could pull it off (guys and girls). Hell, I wanted to do it... my wife reminded me that I couldn't afford to give up my job though - buzz killer.

I think that if the corps had placed 2nd in Class A you might have gotten some folks back to finish the job, but after winning I sense that most alums thought it was time to give it back to the kids to make it work. I think the kids they have HAVE made it work - we just haven't figured out where to get more kids.

Sun's rise to greatness came after 3 great corps Queensmen, Loretto, and Selden became inactive and Sun got most of the members who didn't go to Sky or Hawthorne at the time (1963).

During the resurgence in the mid '70s, members from Manvile and another large group of junior corps who still walked the earth in NY and NJ drifted over to Brooklyn and eventually New Jersey to join for the excellence that had always been Sun's trademark.

The trademark excellence is still there, but the membership of junior corps is gone. Only by piping into school bands will the brass line swell again and even then it will probably get to about 30. Not sure what the combination of staff and location need to be but they have the right people in place to make it happen.

Finally, lest we forget - it is only years, not eons, since Reading was in approximately this same shape - having a dynamite drum line and no horns, regularly out-manned and out-gunned by their alumni corps.

This too shall pass. Keep the faith Sun.

Edited June 14, 2010 by rayfallon

[sunbari1]

You are absolutely correct, and I certainly apologize for insinuating that Class A is not a legitimate path for a smaller corps to gain competitive experience and as a springboard for potentially moving to a competitive Open Class corps. BTW, I believe my choice of words was "languish"....still inappropriate. Granted, I am not always the most PC poster on these boards, however my point was that it would pain me to see alltime great DCA corps such as Sun or Sky struggle along, much the way it pains folks to see a sports hero playing long after they should have retired as a shell of what they once were. Of course Class A might give these corps a gateway to comeback but it's just the way I feel. Sorry for the slight....

Thanks for your retraction. I marched in Sun during those Class A years (3 of them) and for the record, we placed 2nd in 2003, 3rd in 2004 and we were Class A Champions in 2007! Not too shabby, huh?. While I didn't march during the corps' golden era (I started in 1992), nothing changed from the '80's except our size. We may have been smaller, but the tradition, comraderie and work ethic never changed.

[DaveChina]

THE SUNRISERS did not keep the alumni from 2007 who retired that year. informed of what shape the corps was in, i must of asked the corps on the alumni site, how the corps was making out. I never got a reponce. I know that some of the members from the 2007 class A champs, would have come to help fill out the ranks. Thats what happened in 2007.

Jane, you ignorant slut.

To be accurate, "what happened in 2007" was most certainly NOT a case of members from the previous year returning to fill the unfilled ranks in the following year. The veterans that stepped in during the 2007 season to fill remaining blanks - every one of them brass players - had retired a long time ago, in a galaxy far, far away. They heard the names Guillen and Williams and knew there was hope for a renewed Sunrisers. They were what I always refer to as "warriors". And they complemented perfectly a nucleus of hard-working holdovers from 2006 who had the character and dedication necessary to not only make the commitment, but also to endure a very difficult season in which each and every one of them grew ultimately into a champion.

P.S. In the future I recommend that any questions intended for the Competing Corps regarding how they're doing be directed to the Competing Corps and not posted on the Alumni site. It's an apples-n-oranges kind of thing.

We return you now to our regularly scheduled broadcast......

[pearlsnaredrummer77]

I think the trick is to figure out what the corps that are growing are doing. Reading has been at the top of the pantheon since they got there. Cabs never seem to have a problem filling out there ranks. Hurricanes have been growing over the past few years. No one can miss how Alliance has been on the move. What are they doing that's working? (Rhetorical question from my standpoint.)

I think one thing that you'd find recurring in any of these success stories is that "success breeds success." If you can get a good nucleus doing the right stuff, more people will want to join you. Once you get the ball rolling, I dare say it should be easier to stay there. (Note: not saying it's easy, just that it should be easier than GETTING to that point.)

I sometimes wonder if a sociological study (maybe doctoral dissertation) of drum corps membership patterns based upon statistical data wouldn't be helpful. Survey a number of corps over several years in order to find out what draws members in, keeps them, gets them out of the activity, etc. It might help to also look at a group of band kids who are potential DCA candidates, and see where they end-up over a series of years. If we better knew the paramaters of the problem, perhaps it would facilitate a more accurate solution.

[SunRunner]

Moderators,

As the purpose of this thread was simply to announce the Sunrisers 2010 plans, I request that this thread be closed.