Do corps compete most with their own legacy?

[mh31496]

Do you think that a corps' own legacy is their hardest competition? I was thinking about this while I was watching the Cadets and Cavaliers in Allentown. Yes, I know it's still June. BUT, I must say that neither of these programs seems to have the potential of their 1990 or 2000 editions.

Cadets, oh Cadets. How did I love thee. I secretly filmed from the stands, and I've watched it several times now. Oh dear. I don't want to use the term "dumb down" because I would end up irritating all the BD fans out there, but it seems that the Cadet's show seems like it will definitely be "achievable" this year. I know my favorite Cadets shows are '90-93, '95-'98. '91 was definitely an odd ball compared to the others, but the reason I liked those shows and had so much respect for what they did...it had to do with stamina and velocity. Velocity of sound and movement, of all 3 sections. This show does not have velocity. Anywhere. Even if they add some to the real ending, it doesn't make up for the 9 minutes before that.

I guess the point of this post is, do you think it is that history that stays in the back of the minds of the judges...and they maybe unconsciously compare 'what was' to 'what is'? Hands down, 1990 and 2000 would crush this year's show. But do the designers feel that if they want to compete to win now (which increases revenue and talent for the next year), they have to lower the legacy standards to compete with BD? BD is clean as a NASA toilet. It sparkles and shines...practically perfect. But hey, it's still just a toilet. If the Cadets want to be as "perfect" for scoring credit, do they have to take out 20% of their drill book? If they do, will the judges look down at them and consider the production less "on par" with what they EXPECT from the Cadets.

School for Scoundrels is a very difficult piece to sell, just ask Crossmen '95. It's slow when you try to march it, and that makes GE an issue. I'm wishing the Cadets the best of luck...but having to compete with BD and your own past at the same time must be very, very difficult.

None of my comments were meant to offend any particular corps or corps members. I cheer for every kid on the field.

PS, GO CROWN!

[ShortAndFast]

If the Cadets want to be as "perfect" for scoring credit, do they have to take out 20% of their drill book? If they do, will the judges look down at them and consider the production less "on par" with what they EXPECT from the Cadets.

I would say one lesson from 2009 is that the judges are quite willing to reward a "less is more" show design that is well-executed. I haven't seen anybody's show yet, but it sounds like a lot of designers paid attention to what made BD and SCV successful last year.

[garfield]

Do you think that a corps' own legacy is their hardest competition? I was thinking about this while I was watching the Cadets and Cavaliers in Allentown. Yes, I know it's still June. BUT, I must say that neither of these programs seems to have the potential of their 1990 or 2000 editions.

Cadets, oh Cadets. How did I love thee. I secretly filmed from the stands, and I've watched it several times now. Oh dear. I don't want to use the term "dumb down" because I would end up irritating all the BD fans out there, but it seems that the Cadet's show seems like it will definitely be "achievable" this year. I know my favorite Cadets shows are '90-93, '95-'98. '91 was definitely an odd ball compared to the others, but the reason I liked those shows and had so much respect for what they did...it had to do with stamina and velocity. Velocity of sound and movement, of all 3 sections. This show does not have velocity. Anywhere. Even if they add some to the real ending, it doesn't make up for the 9 minutes before that.

I guess the point of this post is, do you think it is that history that stays in the back of the minds of the judges...and they maybe unconsciously compare 'what was' to 'what is'? Hands down, 1990 and 2000 would crush this year's show. But do the designers feel that if they want to compete to win now (which increases revenue and talent for the next year), they have to lower the legacy standards to compete with BD? BD is clean as a NASA toilet. It sparkles and shines...practically perfect. But hey, it's still just a toilet. If the Cadets want to be as "perfect" for scoring credit, do they have to take out 20% of their drill book? If they do, will the judges look down at them and consider the production less "on par" with what they EXPECT from the Cadets.

School for Scoundrels is a very difficult piece to sell, just ask Crossmen '95. It's slow when you try to march it, and that makes GE an issue. I'm wishing the Cadets the best of luck...but having to compete with BD and your own past at the same time must be very, very difficult.

None of my comments were meant to offend any particular corps or corps members. I cheer for every kid on the field.

PS, GO CROWN!

Two thoughts on your theory:

First, I think the judges think the same thing I do when thinking of Cadets: ZAG. You just don't know what to expect from GH. He's hinted to more fan-friendly and "old skool" shows but few doubted he'd do it.

And second, and please forgive me, but if your theory is, in fact, true, then I wonder of the extend of the downsizing ahead of the G7 to let all those high school kids march. To make his plan come true, IMO, it's nearly inevitable that a severe "dumb down" has to take place.

Go CADETS! Go CROWN! Go ANYBODY east of the Rockies! (but mostly GO Cadets)

Edited June 20, 2010 by garfield

[Room_101]

DISCLAIMER: I WENT A LITTLE BIT OF A DIFFERENT ROUTE WITH THIS TOPIC, IT'S NOT EXACTLY WHAT YOU ASKED

Corps absolutely have to deal with this.

MULTIPLE judges' tapes from 2003 Cavaliers have phrases like, "Not quite up to par as last year," etc, etc. In the end, The Cavaliers were no longer battling the Blue Devils for first place...they were battling their 2002 selves!

Judges aren't supposed to do it, but they do. (And yet STILL people continue to allow judges and placements to determine the success of a season...the judges are imperfect, people! But that's another story for another time...)

I think this partially explains 2006 Cadets (which should have been higher, in my opinion) and 2009 Phantom Regiment (which also should have been higher).

We'll see what happens with the Blue Devils this year!

Edited June 20, 2010 by Room_101

[chris ncsu]

I'm sure MANY of us sit there and compare corps to their past selves...judge them based on some high water mark in the past. I certainly do. I judge my favorite (Cadets) against 05, 00-01, the 90s, 87...