perc2100 Posted June 25, 2010 Share Posted June 25, 2010 Exactly. If they only wanted cymbals for a smaller portion of the show, wouldn't it make sense to maximize the membership by having those parts played by other people in the corps doing double-duty? If it hadn't been guard members, it would have been extra pit guys...so I don't see what the problem is. Corps have done this in the past. Off the top of my head I recall Cavaliers doing it a few times in the early 90's (I think they even had some guard members march bass drums for the drum solo one year). I can completely understand the disappointment of the eligible members from 2009's cymbal line in seeing non-percussionists/cymbalists play cymbal at a point in the 2010 show after getting a call from Scouts leadership telling them there is no cymbal line anymore. I'm sure to be a Scout MM in good standing being told they're no longer wanted/needed in their primary talent would be devastating, and I do feel sorry for them. I hope that they have either found a new section with their brothers at Madison, or have found new homes in a corps with the ever-decreasing cymbal line. Apparently the OP has not, and I can understand if he felt strongly about Scouts being his home and didn't want to go elsewhere. Besides that, every single year people get cut from their positions because someone comes in who can play circles around them. I'm sure those people feel the same way, but that's the nature of competitive activity. So I'm not sure why the poster feels "lied to" when they just didn't need that position for the entire show. I'm just glad they didn't abandon the idea altogether and still managed to add 4 more guard members. Are Scouts a corps that asks alumni to re-audition every year, or do they automatically get a pass? I know some corps have the "once you've marched with us you're in forever short of a HUGE blunder on your part," while others annually hold open auditions and if you're a weaker vet who doesn't have their stuff together in December you're out in favor of a rookie who does. For a corps that has a "You'll Never Walk Alone" mantra, the above bolded quote seems a little cold to me: "You'll never walk alone, unless someone comes into auditions more talented than you, and then you're out in favor of increased talent that will help improve our competitive stature." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vferrera Posted June 25, 2010 Share Posted June 25, 2010 I never tried to hide it, I believe I even pointed it out in one of my posts front and center in the first post is where it belonged. Listen, as I stated, from the beginning, you have my sympathy with regard to having your section cut. But when you started with the lying and betrayal garbage, without mentioning that you had been offered a spot, that's where you lost me. Like I said, it's not hard to find people here who will jump on any excuse to bash the scouts (or any corps for that matter). You've gained their sympathy at the expense of unfairly dissing your brothers. Nice job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted June 25, 2010 Share Posted June 25, 2010 agreed...Hannum helped re-write the book on what a marching plate line can do outside. I too was bummed when I saw no plates. marching plate lines are dying a slow death in drum corps period. I'm sorry, but a plate on a stand or occasionally picking pair up in the pit can IN NO WAY equal what a marching line can ive you musically and visually. You can make every argument you want otherwise, but you ####### fail if you even try What's really sad is, with all of the WGi influence you now see on the field, the one thing that has NOT carried over is the plate line. I dread the day Colts and SCV cut their lines, but sadly, I fear it may happen. We keep hearing how none of the newer breed knows cymbals...yet so many are involved with indoor there's NO WAY they can't know about marching lines. ( as for the other stuff about cut/not cut yada yada, no thoughts, don't know enough facts. just really ###### to see marching plae lines continue to die When the corps decides to cut the entire soprano/trumpet line, get back to me with this nonsense. The pride he's speaking about comes from knowingly being a part of what is largely considered a dying breed in DCI. And something the Scouts have historically, with very few exceptions, been known for in this area. It's easy for you to say get over it, but you're not in his shoes. If you were told there would be no cymbal line and then you go and see **color guard members** picking up cymbals in the show, if you were to tell me you'd be happy with that, then I'd think you weren't being entirely honest. He's more than entitled to feel the way he does. His feelings are entirely legitimate and valid. Nobody's mind is going to be changed here. The corps made its decision. He accepts it but just doesn't agree with how it was handled. He still loves the Scouts, and I'm sure he will recover and move on from this. Perhaps some here can try to be more understanding of what he's going through. When you're at that age, you only get so many chances at this DCI thing. And when you're a cymbal player who loves that craft, your opportunities are fewer and further between. What bugs me the most about it is that when I heard Thom Hannum was going to be writing the book, it never occurred to me that there WOULDN'T be a cymbal line. More than just about any other arranger, he actually knows how to write for that voice and incorporate it into the musical ensemble in a way that really enhances the overall musical product. I'm disappointed in this turn of events. So, ggab704, I'm with you man. I totally understand your feelings about this, and I wish it could have been handled differently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ggab704 Posted June 25, 2010 Author Share Posted June 25, 2010 front and center in the first post is where it belonged.Listen, as I stated, from the beginning, you have my sympathy with regard to having your section cut. But when you started with the lying and betrayal garbage, without mentioning that you had been offered a spot, that's where you lost me. Like I said, it's not hard to find people here who will jump on any excuse to bash the scouts (or any corps for that matter). You've gained their sympathy at the expense of unfairly dissing your brothers. Nice job. Excuse me? I do not agree with any of the scout bashers that have been posting. I don't agree with lots of the posters on either side of the fence. don't ever say. Would diss my brothers. We have clarified that there was a lie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted June 25, 2010 Share Posted June 25, 2010 I can completely understand why Madison elected to discontinue its cymbal line. I also can completely understand why people like cymbal lines. The new staff there certainly has enough experience to know what theyre doing.However, i do find it ironic that in a year where madison seems to be very much emphasizing its traditional roots in its show and very traditional uniform, it eliminates its cymbal line. amen. i expected to see a soloist surrounded by cymbals ala 88 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
perc2100 Posted June 25, 2010 Share Posted June 25, 2010 You were told that they aren't marching a cymbal line...and they're not. They have a short cymbal feature. Are you equating that with a cymbal line? What about cymbals in the front ensemble? Are you also upset about that?If you're committed to playing cymbals and no other instrument, then you're basically saying that the corps should bend over backwards to accommodate you. There just aren't many cymbal spots in DCI. Learn a different position or go to another corps. But don't say you were lied to when you weren't. I completely understand what you're saying, but really it's just semantics. There is are a line of guys playing cymbals, so therefor it is a cymbal line. You can argue it's guard members who pick up marching cymbals for a phrase or two and then go back to spinning and dancing. You can argue that Scouts cut last year's cymbal line and decided, "you know we really need a cymbal line to maximize effect here" and then gave the music to under-qualified guard members who are probably not doing as proficient a job as the cymbal players let go in the fall. At the end of the day, Madison Scouts have a cymbal line, even if it's only for a phrase. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vferrera Posted June 25, 2010 Share Posted June 25, 2010 Excuse me? I do not agree with any of the scout bashers that have been posting. I don't agree with lots of the posters on either side of the fence. don't ever say. Would diss my brothers.We have clarified that there was a lie There was no lie, just an attempt by you to twist, hide, and manipulate the truth. The moment you turned down a spot in the corps, that was the end of their obligation. They didn't need to keep you informed of every change in programming. Even if they had decided to bring back a full-fledged plate line, they would have been well within their rights NOT to inform you. You quit on them, not the other way around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
perc2100 Posted June 25, 2010 Share Posted June 25, 2010 I suggest you refer to GGarrett's post on the matter. You have a skewed interpretation of this situation. I never said it was irrelevant, I only said that it had already been discussed ad naseum...which is true. Go back and find the threads about it if you're interested. And NOTHING else is EVER readdressed on DCP, huh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ggab704 Posted June 25, 2010 Author Share Posted June 25, 2010 There was no lie, just an attempt by you to twist, hide, and manipulate the truth. The moment you turned down a spot in the corps, that was the end of their obligation. They didn't need to keep you informed of every change in programming. Even if they had decided to bring back a full-fledged plate line, they would have been well within their rights NOT to inform you. You quit on them, not the other way around. Saying you arnt fielding cymbals and then fielding them is a lie I. Every sense of the word and you need to accept that. and I gave someone a chance to do better in a spot then I would get it thru your head Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dmfootworks Posted June 25, 2010 Share Posted June 25, 2010 At the end of the day, Madison Scouts have a cymbal line, even if it's only for a phrase. At the end of the day, there are a few guys that pick up cymbals for a short period. That is not a cymbal line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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