BARNUM FESTIVAL

[LegalEagle50]

But do not worry yourself. I am OLD, and Ill. I will not be around all that much longer to Bother you and the "Band Corps" types.

That's funny, because I like today's DCA corps you automatically assume you know it all as well. FWIW I did 5 years with the Bridgemen. Why? Because they aren't like everyone else. See you don't have to pigeon hole everyone.....

[Jeff Ream]

You seem to have left out that I said: "The Quality and Excellance are sure there." I DID/DO see the Quality and Excellance of what they do. Up till last year (The first year since 1960 that I did NOT attend a Drum Corps Show). I would travel many, many miles just to see at least One Each year. I would go to DCA Championships every year. I would even sit through ALL of Prelims. From the the first group on, till the last one. (even in Sun and Heat - Wind and Rain. Start to Finish) So I know what Minn Brass, Buc's, Bush, ETC, and Class A are doing.

I went to The BIG Scranton Legion Nat's. year before last. I SAW Empire Statesmen get 2 or 3 Standing Ovations during their show. I SAW them get the Loudest Fan reation. I SAW the Longest Standing Ovation when leaving the field. Then not win a single Cat. in scoring.

Can someone EXPLAIN how G. E. ("General Effect") works to me? How can a unit get that much love from the "Fans in the Stands" and not even win a G.E. cat. Should not the FAN reaction have SOMETHING to do with things?

No. Pleasing the "Adudicaters" is more important. So, when Only Band Members, Friends, Parents, Music Profs, Etc. go to see the "Band Corps". YOU won.

I mean them No Harm. If they (The Band Corps people) are Happy. GOOD. I am Glad for them and their "NEW" outdoor music way of things. BUT, the "Band" part is NOW the larger part of things. Yet they have kept a small "Drum and Bugle Corps" part. So it is NOT an Insult to call them what they are. IT IS, a name that Combines the TWO things in a MORE accurate way. Be Proud of what they do. It is NOT bad, evil or unworthy. It is of the HIGHEST QUALITY. Go forth and Prosper with it.

As too; "you claim to be so into."

No, I do not "Claim". I AM into Alumni. That is a Fact.

I marched with Alumni (type) Corps. (4 different ones In three states) I have been to Alumni type events. I donate to Alumni type units. Well at least till they MORPH in "Band Corps".

But do not worry yourself. I am OLD, and Ill. I will not be around all that much longer to Bother you and the "Band Corps" types.

General Effect is not about having thew crowd throw babies.

ge is all about building up to the moments, making staging and music work together as well as color, offering variety, and having smooth transitions from thought to thought,...and then performing them.

too often people think GE is just because the crowd yells.

I too go sit thru all of prelims, and see as many shows as possible. I find a lot to effect me, good and bad, and having some understanding of the sheets helps, but really, if all you want is to see scores you agree with and shows that make you throw babies, maybe it's time for you to really look at what you like about drum corps, or see if maybe you can talk to people currently involved who can giveyou greater understanding.

or..go see who you like and buy a souvie when someone you dislike is on

[jware]

I think the usefulness of this thread has run its course. Point is.. some where there, most were not. The old school DCA vets who clearly have an axe to grind from some issue that happened 30 years ago can't seemed to stop living in the past and judging corps based on bitter bias of which no one in the current corps have a clue what your talking about. The message you people are leaving on here for all to read is the the old Sr corps persona that most DCI kids are told they want no part of is all valid. So when you ask the question why does DCI think little of DCA... simply read your own posts.

It would be nice that at some point the young ladies and gentlemen who are currently competing in the DCA can come on here and read about their corps and their competition WITHOUT the old school bitter vets from a by gone era hijacking their threads and starting the same arguments all over again.

There may be issues with DCA and the adjudicators, but there is far more wrong going on here where everyone can read it with all of you. Put it to bed already and help support the people who are sweating for your enjoyment.

BOOM!!!There it is. Well put!

Jerry

[Fran Haring]

BOOM!!!There it is. Well put!

Jerry

How DARE you use large print like that. You woke me up.

[Sayre Kulp]

Hey Sayre,

Maybe you should add "Armchair Philanthropist and Judge" to your resume.

You win. I'll go back to saying that everyone was awesome and that the judges are spot on.

[Kyoti]

I like hypocrites. My evaluation of the judges opinions is considered uncalled for, then MY credentials are subsequently called into question. Like Arthur Guiness would say: BRILLIANT!

Not called into question, just compared to the color guard judges whose decisions you called "ABSOLUTELY LUDICROUS" and accused of having "LOST THEIR MINDS". If you feel that your percussion credentials are strong enough to make these kinds of statements about Antoine Blalark and Ed Doscher, then so be it.

What people don't understand about my marching resume is that some of us think that building a program or educating the inexperienced is a more pleasurable experience than winning a medal and buying a ring. I've spent most of my years in the trenches working just as hard as any of the top 5 corps in order to help smaller struggling units get to the field.

Is that what you think the Buccaneers are doing? Buying rings? C'mon, you are in their Alumni Corps. You should know better than that. And FWIIW, how would you know how hard a Top 5 corps woRks if you have never been in one? Have you taught a Top 5 corps in your infinite list of teaching experiences? I'm not saying that non Top 5 corps don't work hard, but how can you make this statement if you haven't done it?

As I said - the Bucs have a more advanced program that supersedes anything else being attempted in DCA so far this year. That having been said, so you think a corps should get the title of high percussion when they are attempting a superior program but not yet achieving it at the same level as one of their competitors? How about the color guard? Those sheets you are quoting do not include verbiage related to "demand" or "attempt". Design & composition, yes. And that is one of my problems. Why don't I just get a corps to run laps around the field while triple tonguing double and triple C's for 10-12 minutes? We'd never be able to achieve it cleanly, but we should get all kinds of credit for having the hardest book out there. What if we played a show about the circus, and had actual live elephants and clowns, and brought our own trapeze to hang about the stadium. Without a doubt, we'd have the greatest variety of visual elements going on. Our show would have so much detail. Does that mean we should get credit if our snare line needs a Dustbuster for all the dirt we're spewing?

Circus with elephants, clowns and trapezes? I didn't see Statesmen there? But c'mon, a Dustbuster? So you are saying they were THAT dirty compared to Cabs and Hurcs? I guess you are right. Jim Galvin and Charlie Poole just don't have the stones to put down a number that would make the Buccaneers unhappy. Here's Charlie's write-up from Pro-mark...

Charley Poole’s 41-year drum corps career began in 1957 at the age of 6. He rapidly developed a reputation as an individual snare drum competitor, and from 1966 through 1969 was the reigning Connecticut and Northeastern states individual champion. At 16, Charley won the first of three national snare drum individual championships.After assuming staff positions with a variety of Boston-based corps, Charley became a part of the instructional staff of the 27th Lancers of Revere, Mass., in 1977. Together with visual genius George Zingali and brass veteran Jim Wedge, he collaborated on a series of show designs recognized as some of the most exciting and entertaining in the history of DCI. His percussion features were noted for their musical complexity, technical display and visual intensity.From 1980 through 1986 he was unanimously elected to serve on the DCI Task Force on Judging as the percussion instructor representative, a testament to the respect that he earned among his peers. In 1987, Charley consulted with the Star of Indiana and in 1988, with the Bluecoats. Currently, Charley serves as the DCI Atlantic Division percussion caption chairperson as an adjudicator. He is also the percussion director at Everett High School in Everett, MA and the percussion caption head at East Coast Jazz Drum and Bugle Corps, based out of Wakefield, MA.

But who knows, maybe YOU are right?

Call me crazy, but I thought the scores given out each night were supposed to be for how the corps performed AT THAT SHOW. Not in weeks, months, and years prior.

OK.....YOU'RE CRAZY!

[rayfallon]

General Effect is not about having thew crowd throw babies.

ge is all about building up to the moments, making staging and music work together as well as color, offering variety, and having smooth transitions from thought to thought,...and then performing them.

too often people think GE is just because the crowd yells.

I too go sit thru all of prelims, and see as many shows as possible. I find a lot to effect me, good and bad, and having some understanding of the sheets helps, but really, if all you want is to see scores you agree with and shows that make you throw babies, maybe it's time for you to really look at what you like about drum corps, or see if maybe you can talk to people currently involved who can giveyou greater understanding.

or..go see who you like and buy a souvie when someone you dislike is on

That's just cause no corps you played with threw babies. It's really cool - depending on how the adorable little tykes land, or what your sabre line is doing at the time.

[rayfallon]

Not called into question, just compared to the color guard judges whose decisions you called "ABSOLUTELY LUDICROUS" and accused of having "LOST THEIR MINDS". If you feel that your percussion credentials are strong enough to make these kinds of statements about Antoine Blalark and Ed Doscher, then so be it.

Is that what you think the Buccaneers are doing? Buying rings? C'mon, you are in their Alumni Corps. You should know better than that. And FWIIW, how would you know how hard a Top 5 corps woRks if you have never been in one? Have you taught a Top 5 corps in your infinite list of teaching experiences? I'm not saying that non Top 5 corps don't work hard, but how can you make this statement if you haven't done it?

Circus with elephants, clowns and trapezes? I didn't see Statesmen there? But c'mon, a Dustbuster? So you are saying they were THAT dirty compared to Cabs and Hurcs? I guess you are right. Jim Galvin and Charlie Poole just don't have the stones to put down a number that would make the Buccaneers unhappy. Here's Charlie's write-up from Pro-mark...

Charley Poole’s 41-year drum corps career began in 1957 at the age of 6. He rapidly developed a reputation as an individual snare drum competitor, and from 1966 through 1969 was the reigning Connecticut and Northeastern states individual champion. At 16, Charley won the first of three national snare drum individual championships.After assuming staff positions with a variety of Boston-based corps, Charley became a part of the instructional staff of the 27th Lancers of Revere, Mass., in 1977. Together with visual genius George Zingali and brass veteran Jim Wedge, he collaborated on a series of show designs recognized as some of the most exciting and entertaining in the history of DCI. His percussion features were noted for their musical complexity, technical display and visual intensity.From 1980 through 1986 he was unanimously elected to serve on the DCI Task Force on Judging as the percussion instructor representative, a testament to the respect that he earned among his peers. In 1987, Charley consulted with the Star of Indiana and in 1988, with the Bluecoats. Currently, Charley serves as the DCI Atlantic Division percussion caption chairperson as an adjudicator. He is also the percussion director at Everett High School in Everett, MA and the percussion caption head at East Coast Jazz Drum and Bugle Corps, based out of Wakefield, MA.

But who knows, maybe YOU are right?

OK.....YOU'RE CRAZY!

Crazy and a weak speller to boot - supercedes - not supersedes. I'm telling you - this is not about the show - it's about wanting to seem (and I accent seem) like a bad ###. i want to see him get his bad ### up in Jim Galvin's face. You know my suspicion about people who try to act like bad-##### on the internet. Might be a litle compensating going on here for some other short - coming...

Edited June 28, 2010 by rayfallon

[rayfallon]

That's funny, because I like today's DCA corps you automatically assume you know it all as well. FWIW I did 5 years with the Bridgemen. Why? Because they aren't like everyone else. See you don't have to pigeon hole everyone.....

Liz - pretty sure it's illegal to pigeon hole people in most states - applies to corn and a couple other holes as well... just saying...

[rayfallon]

I like hypocrites. My evaluation of the judges opinions is considered uncalled for, then MY credentials are subsequently called into question. Like Arthur Guiness would say: BRILLIANT!

What people don't understand about my marching resume is that some of us think that building a program or educating the inexperienced is a more pleasurable experience than winning a medal and buying a ring. I've spent most of my years in the trenches working just as hard as any of the top 5 corps in order to help smaller struggling units get to the field. Another thing you may not realize is that although my profile picture shows me playing contra, I have also played battery and pit for about 20 years. I only picked up the big horn when the corps I was with needed contra players. I also don't list the countless teaching and design positions I've held with various marching units, ranging from brass to percussion and yes, color guard and visual. But I can see how that would certainly discredit MY opinions.

As I said - the Bucs have a more advanced program that supersedes anything else being attempted in DCA so far this year. That having been said, so you think a corps should get the title of high percussion when they are attempting a superior program but not yet achieving it at the same level as one of their competitors? How about the color guard? Those sheets you are quoting do not include verbiage related to "demand" or "attempt". Design & composition, yes. And that is one of my problems. Why don't I just get a corps to run laps around the field while triple tonguing double and triple C's for 10-12 minutes? We'd never be able to achieve it cleanly, but we should get all kinds of credit for having the hardest book out there. What if we played a show about the circus, and had actual live elephants and clowns, and brought our own trapeze to hang about the stadium. Without a doubt, we'd have the greatest variety of visual elements going on. Our show would have so much detail. Does that mean we should get credit if our snare line needs a Dustbuster for all the dirt we're spewing?

Understand that my problem with the way the corps are being scored right now, is that Bucs (albeit the superior "total package") appear to be getting extra credit in places where they are not superior. This results in the overly large point spreads we're seeing. All this paints the picture that says the Bucs are untouchable. The other corps might as well pack it in early and save some money, because even when their color guard is superior or their drum line has a better night than Reading, they can't gain ground because they're not getting the appropriate credit they deserve. All this is evident in both the Wildwood threads and this one. People who have not even seen one corps perform yet are convinced that Reading is the best corps and will win every show because they've seen recaps and ordinals which have Reading clearly on top by a large margin across the board. I think it's bogus, and I agree with Liz that right now it appears that the judges are afraid to correct things in an effort to save face and keep their credibility. I don't think the judges are bad people, but I don't agree with what I'm seeing right now. I could go down the road of discussion that implies that judges are likely to score the corps relatively comparable to what is already out there, regardless of what the corps does on the field, and that certainly seemed to happen in the case of Hurcs and Cabs Saturday night. How the Cabs performed at Wildwood probably would have beaten Hurcs. How they performed on Saturday in Bridgeport never should have. It was a bad show for them. It happens to everyone. Why are the judges afraid to score it appropriately? The same thing happened to Reading in Scranton last year. They had an off night. Yet, somehow the judges still saw fit to have them more than 2 whole points ahead of any of their competitors. Call me crazy, but I thought the scores given out each night were supposed to be for how the corps performed AT THAT SHOW. Not in weeks, months, and years prior.

As the man stated in his original post - don't bother to flame or otherwise critique his critique - he just doesn't care - this was 6 paragraphs of not caring. And if you disagree, you're a suck up who only says good things.