Youtube has added to my confusion

[76strad]

So I know back in the day it was 2 piston bugles and what not. Well I saw Blue Devils "Legend of the One Eyed Sailor" not being a big BD fan, but still liking them, I decided to see what this legendary one eyed sailor was all about. It was pretty cool (if I dont mind sayin) but one thing perturbed me. I saw a Rotary Mello? I had never known that DCI used rotary mellos, just curious, but did they come before piston mellos? and were they very popular at all? It just made me curious if there was anything in the hornline precursing all 2 pistoned bugles?

[76strad]

and for killing 2 birds with one stone, is there anything keeping DCI World Class Corps from using G bugles again? (rule wise)

[SCV84]

You'll need a brass guy for this one, but I believe piston and rotor preceeded two piston bugles...

[vferrera]

Believe it or not, corps played on one-valve bugles until the early 60s.

Then came valve-rotor horns. The rotor was the equivalent of the second valve. Mechanically, it was the same as used by french horns and rotary trumpet.

ALL corps carried valve-rotor bugles until 1976. In 1977, the sops changes to 2-valve. 2-valve mellos and french horns came a year or two later. By 1980 or so the the entire brass choir was 2-valve.

A little history here: http://www.middlehornleader.com/Evolution%...Section%204.htm

Edited July 4, 2010 by vferrera

[76strad]

wow, that's really a surprise for me to find that out

[Kamarag]

ALL corps carried valve-rotor bugles until 1976. In 1977, the sops changes to 2-valve. 2-valve mellos and french horns came a year or two later. By 1980 or so the the entire brass choir was 2-valve.

1979. Trivia: The first corps to purchase a full set of matched two-valve bugles was Suncoast Sound (also in 1979).

[vferrera]

and for killing 2 birds with one stone, is there anything keeping DCI World Class Corps from using G bugles again? (rule wise)

The rule is ANY key, so, yes, G "bugles" are allowed. as are A, B, C, D, E, and F, flat or sharp, conical or cylindrical.

[JayM]

One of the horns that I used to teach myself how to play brass (I played saxophone in high school) was an Olds Ultratone V/R french horn bugle. The father of a friend of mine was a Shriner, and I guess they had a drum and bugle corps at one point. *shrug*

Regardless, the horn was in great condition, but the valve-rotor system (utilized with both thumbs, no less) in combination with the wacky French horn partials (well, they seemed wacky at the time) made it a daunting horn on which to learn.

I'd almost forgotten about that horn. Good times.

Edited July 4, 2010 by JayM

[ScottPREuph]

I own a piston/rotor baritone. Its fun to play around with, and my non drum corps friends always ask what the heck it is. And no, there is not a rule prohibiting G bugles from being used.

[BigW]

Okay here's the skinny.

The activity started with ex WW1 military surplus G bugles, which were of pretty bad quality.

Sometime post WW2 or before, hopefully Ironlips or some more knowledgeable person can have an exact date... they went to G-D bugles, one piston valve. I have a couple, and they're also leaky and made badly, and for the love of God, I have trouble getting around on one. I likely need a Baritone, or have to go down in my parent's basement where they are kept and try working with one longer to get the feel.

They then went to Piston/Slide. The Piston set the bugle to F (what everyone would think of as 1st valve) and the left hand pulled out a slide for the F-Sharp, what would be the second valve. I've heard stories about tuning with those and the drift was on certain notes, you were supposed to "hit yourself in da face!!!!" when you pulled back on the slide.

If you are lucky, you might get to see Danny Fitzpatrick play one in DCA I and E, I was fortunate to have been there for one of his prformances. In the hands of someone like Danny, they're quite, quite, good instruments!

They then went to the Piston/rotor, where the rotor replaced the slide. Depending on the instrument and person you used the left thumb or index finger to work it. I used a thumb, which is supposedly incorrect, no one ever corrected me, and I can do 16th note runs on one (when the freakin' rotor WORKS! ), it's not that hard once you get used to the left-right thing...

Now here's the really interesting tidbit. Getzen, I believe built 2 piston Bugles in the late 60's for the Westshoremen and perhaps another senior corps (Maybe Reading!?). The valves were not placed like a normal trumpet, but were like the piston/rotor bugles, the valves facing back towards the musician! The instruments were outlawed after a season or two, very few still exist, I have seen one of them, it's not at the Cumberland County Historical Society in PA now being preserved. So, that innovation was nipped in the bud quickly.

Jim Fawber here knows more about this in detail. Hopefully he can fill in the blanks regarding these instruments for you.

Finally, you start to see the two valves as one would normally think of them in the late '70's, I know we at Westshore underwent a partial conversion in 1982 and did not have an all 2-piston line 'till 1983.

Personally, I am on the fence in regards to the G Bugles. I use a Kanstul in Alumni corps, and it takes a lot of practice and work to subdue the beast, though I must say when one gets it under your power it's very satisfying, though with other bugles, you can over-balance with it too easily.

From my perspective, whether B-Flat or not-- give me a reliable instrument with valves that will work, is easy to deal with in terms of intonation where I can lip it when I need to, one that is responsive and not a big honkin' woof-bag like some of the Yamaha marching Baris are, and also is light and well balanced, and I will be able to provide more than adequate baritone goodness in G or B-Flat. I hope a couple of the companies that build the horns read this- the best marching bari I have come across was the old 2-valve Kings like BD had in the early 80's that came closest to fitting this ideal.