Most impressive "reign of terror" in corps history

[Bob984]

Cavaliers over BD's 70s/80s reign for the simple fact that Cavaliers, during that period, were seeing more competition from other top ranked corps more often than 70s BD.

In the 70s, it wouldn't be unusual for the top corps to see each other just 3 or 4 times during an entire season, where the current tour model pits the top corps against each other much more regularly (for ex: in '79, BD saw Regiment just 3 times before DCI Finals week; Cavaliers saw BD at least 5 times before Finals in 2002, and had to beat them each time PLUS having to beat them three in a row in Madison). In addition, Cavaliers, because of their typical tour schedule, were seeing more competition close to their level throughout the season, as opposed to BD, who usually had no one but SCV to beat during the first 3 weeks of so of a typical 70s season.

Leaving off any question of who or what changed the activity the most (Garfield mid-80s owns that one, imho), purely from a winning percentage standpoint, when weighted with level of competition, it tips in Rosemont's favor.

I disagree when you refer that BD did not have to compete against the "top ranked corps" frequently. They went up against the Vanguard ALL OF THE TIME. And the Vanguard was a perennial champion and always in the top 3 and a contender every year. You are right that they only saw (and beat) Phantom 3 times in 1979 before nationals. But they went up against 3rd place Vanguard and 4th place Spirit many times. In 1978, I was in Crossmen (ranked top 6 all season until finals), and we had an early tour with BD, Phantom, SCV, and Madison, going every night. All of them beat each other. The season was also longer, and we had the tick. But BD always was prepared. The bottom line....12 seasons straight in the top 3....6 titles 6-3-3. Out of their 6 title losses, four were by under 4 tenths....only 2 (1975...their 1st year as a contender, and 1984 to Cadets) did they lose by more. Also during that time (again...TWELVE YEARS), I am fairly sure that they won over 90% of ALL of their contests.

This is not to belittle Cavs accomplishments, which were substantial, and the Cadets run (I was part of the 1st portion of that)......but BD's length of competitive dominance dwarfs everyone else, both that run, and in the history of DCI.......

GB

[mobrien]

I disagree. Different judging system made more corps a legitimate threat.....again, How many actual losses did these corps have in their reign along with number of shows ?? Blue Devils did their "Damage" with longer seasons ans more competitors and a different evaluation process.

But since the judging system was the same for all competitors in a given year, it still comes back to looking at competitive success against peers from within a given era. And "peers" is important, since the total number of corps out there isn't a significant factor if 90% of the corps in a larger pool aren't really competitive with the top.

Even in the 70s, it would be almost unheard of for a top level corps to lose to an eventual 5th or 6th place corps (that probably happens more now than it did then). Going back to '79, the only loss BD had was against the eventual 3rd place Vanguard, and even then, only early in the year.

But BD, Vanguard, and PR were all three at the same show only ONCE that entire season. Compare that to the current model, with regionals that pit the top corps against each other several times a summer, and the chances for failure at the top are increased, imho.

I see your point, but would hold that "degree of difficulty" is an important element of considering the possibilities, and that it's harder to stay in the driver's seat for a long period when you're getting whacked at by the other drivers on a more regular basis..

Edited July 14, 2010 by mobrien

[crfrey71]

Nothing changed as a result though. Heck, BD was still doing symetical drill in 1984.

Who cares what changed? The question is simple. Basically, whose dominance was most impressive?

To answer that, I say BD's is the most impressive because the competition during those years was probably close to or at it's peak of any other time in the drum corps era (or atleast the choices that where given in the poll). I would then say Cadets after that and nobody close after the Cadets and BD.

The cavies the most impressive? How? We pretty much know who will win DCI during those year and didn't even need all the fingers on one hand to figure that out. That is like in baseball. It's either the Yankees or Red Sox, most years, in this era.

Edited July 14, 2010 by crfrey71

[Bob984]

But since the judging system was the same for all competitors in a given year, it still comes back to looking at competitive success against peers from within a given era. And "peers" is important, since the total number of corps out there isn't a significant factor if 90% of the corps in a larger pool aren't really competitive with the top.

Even in the 70s, it would be almost unheard of for a top level corps to lose to an eventual 5th or 6th place corps (that probably happens more now than it did then). Going back to '79, the only loss BD had was against the eventual 3rd place Vanguard, and even then, only early in the year.

But BD, Vanguard, and PR were all three at the same show only ONCE that entire season. Compare that to the current model, with regionals that pit the top corps against each other several times a summer, and the chances for failure at the top are increased, imho.

I see your point, but would hold that "degree of difficulty" is an important element of considering the possibilities, and that it's harder to stay in the driver's seat for a long period when you're getting whacked at by the other drivers on a more regular basis..

You really need to research scores/seasons, as your info simply isn't true, and things were just as competitive, if not more, for all of the top players, and results got "jumpy" many times. Here is just one of many, many examples....

1977 (corps listed in order of finish)

7/8 - 9 East prelims 7/9 East Finals 7/10 CYO DCI Finals

Bridgemen Bridgemen 27th BD

Madison Phantom Bridgemen PH

Phantom Madison Phantom SCV

27th 27th Madison (Bridgemen DQ)

27th

Madison

You can see many (but not all) of the season results over the years at www.fromthepressbox.com.

It looks like you are only pointing to 1979 in that entire 12 year period.......even that year, as I stated before, BD had to go up against Santa Clara ALL OF THE TIME, and they also went up against Spirit (who also beat Phantom during the season) several times.

Competitive seasons were every bit as tough in that era as they are now...............

GB

[Fran Haring]

Garfield 83-87.

That's my vote, too.

Among other things, the first East Coast corps to win a DCI title. And win again, and again......

[Bob984]

You really need to research scores/seasons, as your info simply isn't true, and things were just as competitive, if not more, for all of the top players, and results got "jumpy" many times. Here is just one of many, many examples....

1977 (corps listed in order of finish)

7/8 - 9 East prelims 7/9 East Finals 7/10 CYO DCI Finals

Bridgemen Bridgemen 27th BD

Madison Phantom Bridgemen PH

Phantom Madison Phantom SCV

27th 27th Madison (Bridgemen DQ)

27th

Madison

You can see many (but not all) of the season results over the years at www.fromthepressbox.com.

It looks like you are only pointing to 1979 in that entire 12 year period.......even that year, as I stated before, BD had to go up against Santa Clara ALL OF THE TIME, and they also went up against Spirit (who also beat Phantom during the season) several times.

Competitive seasons were every bit as tough in that era as they are now...............

GB

Somehow the web messed up my last post in terms of those show orders....I'll try this way......

Bridgemen, Madison, Phantom, 27 July 8 and 9, 1977

Bridgemen, Phantom, Madison, 27 July 9

27, Bridgemen, Phantom, Madison July 10

BD, Phantom, SCV, Bridgemen (DQ), 27, Madison Nationals

[GMichael1230]

That's my vote, too.

Among other things, the first East Coast corps to win a DCI title. And win again, and again......

werent a front runner in 87 and werent a top three contender in 86. Lost to Blue Devils and Phantom Regiment in 1984 also....lost to Vanguard and tied BD in 83, lost to SCV, Scouts, and Devils in 85.

G

[Fran Haring]

werent a front runner in 87 and werent a top three contender in 86. Lost to Blue Devils and Phantom Regiment in 1984 also....lost to Vanguard and tied BD in 83, lost to SCV, Scouts, and Devils in 85.

G

Still the first East Coast corps to win multiple DCI titles (starting with that 1983-87 stretch). Actually, the only one. And them winning that first one in 1983.... that was huge, given the history of drum corps and the East's prominent role in that history. That 1983 victory was quite a breakthrough, IMO.

As for not being a front-runner in 1987...based on the scores, they certainly ended up being the front-runner on Finals night.

Blue Devils 1976-82 was my runnerup vote. Dominant and game-changing.

Edited July 14, 2010 by Fran Haring

[GMichael1230]

Still the first East Coast corps to win multiple DCI titles (starting with that 1983-87 stretch). Actually, the only one. And them winning that first one in 1983.... that was huge, given the history of drum corps and the East's prominent role in that history. That 1983 victory was quite a breakthrough, IMO.

As for not being a front-runner in 1987...based on the scores, they certainly ended up being the front-runner on Finals night.

Blue Devils 1976-82 was my runnerup vote. Dominant and game-changing.

but its not about first east coast corps, game changing design, etc, etc...its about dominance and numbers and you cant say they were "dominat" those five years as a whole because they simply werent. Anyway....

G

they lost to the tenth place corps in 87...game over.

Edited July 14, 2010 by GMichael1230

[dmfootworks]

I disagree when you refer that BD did not have to compete against the "top ranked corps" frequently. They went up against the Vanguard ALL OF THE TIME. And the Vanguard was a perennial champion and always in the top 3 and a contender every year.

No question that Vanguard and BD kept each other on their toes in those years and were fabulously prepared when they went east.