World Class Motivation

[Lightness]

Oh, I left out I have been around drum corps for 48 seasons, so I have seen a lot.

In my 10 active years, prior to DCI, I won 9 national championships, 4 marching, 4 teaching, and 1 individual. I am still a professional musician in the Chicago area, and have held my own while performing with members of the Chicago Symphony Orchestra, and Lyric Opera Orchestra. I am not the common, untrained fan in the stands.

I want to go on record that I detest this concept. I always have and always will detest it.

I have brought this up because of a blog I read by a mellophone player in one of the top corps published at the end of July regarding a rehearsal from that day. The member was explaining the corps had two basics blocks, the "good" block, and the "tick" block". If you made a mistake in the good block, you were sent to the tick block, which ran many of the same drills, but at a much higher tempo, and for a longer duration. If you then made a mistake in the tick block, you ran laps, or did pushups.

The member seemed to accept this as a norm for drum corps, which really made me upset. At the end the member stated he/she could hardly stand up because they were so tired.

I have made an attempt to not mention the sex of the member as to not give any clue which corps this might have been.

During championship week I was talking to a group of friends mentioning this blog. One of my friends, a long time booster of a different top level corps said, "Everyone runs." He also accepted this as a norm for a different top 10 corps, which has me wondering how commonly this is done.

I don't disagree with running. I believe it is necessary, especially in the pre tour camps, for cardio vascular conditioning. I only have a problem if it is continued for punishment reasons.

Before I get too upset, I would like to know how common this practice is.

This is why I am asking the members of the world class corps to check in and let me know.

I agree, physical punishment is the action of a very poor teacher. Fatigue does not make you better, it causes mistakes. Not only physically, but it mentally wears you down, and by the end of the season, you are a "broken pony".

If this is prevalent, I may try to start a movement within the DCI organization to ban this form of abuse from drum corps. I consider this abuse. If I had a child in a corps where I was paying the salaries of the staff through donations and dues, and I saw this, I would walk onto the field and take my child off of the field.

In the case of the blog, when the season started going downhill for the corps in question, from every report I saw/heard, the staff worked this members harder and changed virtually nothing in the show to improve the results. This is my definition of crazy, "repeating the same acitons, and expecting different results." Maybe the staff should have been running laps until they figured out how to do their job better.

I would dearly love to see this removed from drum corps, but until I know how prevalent this type of action is within the movement, I can not determine the best way to proceed.

I don't want this to become an argument as to whether this is good, I simply would like a poll from the people involved as to how often this occurs.

I will get off of my soap box, now.

Thanks to anyone who has the "guts" to speak up and let us know what your corps is doing. I wold love to see the drum corps experience be a positive experience for every young woman and man who performs. The only way to do this is to know what is happening and take action to remove detrimental actions.

I also read that blog and mentioned it to my son (he marched SCV this year). His response after I told him about the tick block was, "We could have used something like that." He mentioned something about mental errors and how that might have helped. He said he ran when he wanted to, but it was not required for punishment or otherwise.

[ggab704]

I watch other corps rehearse, and I'm continually amazed and appalled that this type of practice still goes on.

If performers take it upon themselves to "do pushups" (or whatever) to acknowledge they made a mistake, that's one thing ... but for a staff member to use physical punishment as a threat for not making errors is something I haven't seen in decades.

Physical threats is part of the 'old school' system, which may produce results, is NOT sustainable ... and the practice should be stopped ... in drum corps, band, whatever. It's a bad practice.

I like when the staff pushes me to do pushups for my mistakes, it motivates me and gets my adrenalin flowing.

That said I have never had staff use pushups as a all around punishment, most realize we are paying to do this...but we arnt paying to be lazy. If we start to get lazy and hell practicing everyday for a couple months can bring us to the point where we dont even act like we care, I have been brought to that point and if i wouldnt have been pushed to do some pushups, pullups or run I probably would have ******* out and quit.

holding up whatever you play is going to hurt a hell of alot more than anything else you do in a season, Im paying to look great by the end of the summer, not to feel like a lazy tan twig.

[corps-mudgeon]

has no clue how really bad things once were to say "how bad things have become" ?

I agree with pretty much all the points you've made in this thread. This point in particular struck me too as I was first reading the OP. It was a really discordant comment.

[RetiredJedi]

Since I'm thinking it's mostly BS to begin with, I would think this is someones mother posting as a man to throw off the scent. They have most likely started crap for several days and not gotten any recruits so they came on DCP as a man so they could go back to others and say "see, there's someone else who thinks the same thing I do, I' NOT the only one who feels this way".

I say a 1st year mom who thinks their little "jeffery" (who's private teacher gives them warm and fuzzy trophies each week), was unfairly picked on just because they were expected to work their butt off ALL summer and stop being a PITA.

I think we all know the type ( and boy is she ###### NOW )

I think you're nearly right.

I'm guessing that these 2 are a pair of 15 year old girls having a rough time at band camp.

[The Other Mike]

I think you're nearly right.

I'm guessing that these 2 are a pair of 15 year old girls having a rough time at band camp.

Ahhhhhhhhh, ok, I can see that.

and maybe camp started this week and at least someone on staff is one of those " mean drum corps instructors" ?

[Kamarag]

Ahhhhhhhhh, ok, I can see that.

and maybe camp started this week and at least someone on staff is one of those " mean drum corps instructors" ?

God forbid someone's precious little snowflake has to put forth some effort and breaks a sweat :)

[ashyUechi]

Totally disagree. If you think that is bad then you would hate me teaching your kids. When they become totally unfocused and out of control (let's say this is a marching band at a high school with no tradition of excellence or any clue of what high performance standards are) ......... I would stop the rehearsal and have them "Assume The Position".

This is the Apex of a push-up, with your arms in a V, knuckles together and elbows out. Keep your body in perfect alignment without cheating your cheeks up in the air. This was a timed exercise. What did it accomplish?

1. It stopped everything else going on that was a distraction to proper rehearsal etiquette.

2. It strengthened the core muscles of the membership.

3. It cleared their mind of everything else going on ... and made them focus on their body and breathing.

4. It hurt.

Am I mean? Maybe ......... but it is positive reinforcement moreso than negative. I get's the members in the proper mindset for rehearsal and performance. It reminds them that they are there to do a job. It also shows them how strong they've become over the course of a season as they can "Assume The Position" for longer durations of time. At first, they hate it ....... as time moves forward and they see their progress ..... it becomes a chance for them to throw it in my face. It also shows that when they are not there for the right reasons, there are consequences for their actions. End result .. a much improved program, better physical fitness, a stronger mental attitude ......... and parents see a changed individual who is more focused and performs their shows, schoolwork and everything in between at a higher level than their parents have ever seen their child achieve.

Moral of the story: Being great hurts ... and if it doesn't hurt you're just kidding yourself about how great you think you are.

I really would not approve you teaching my kids. I would probably bring my concerns to your administration. Students become unfocused because of lack of engagement. A great teacher keeps their students engaged. Isn't that the biggest part of teaching? Learning who your student are and adapting to make the strongest connection with them that you can? Isn't that the art of teaching?

Maybe the problem is how you're presenting the information? If you take yourself out of the equation then you're not allowing yourself to grow.

Reflect on your teaching practice and say to yourself "Are there any other strategies that I could use other than push ups?" Just try it and see what happens. I did and it changed my teaching practice for the better.

Ashy

[Kamarag]

Reflect on your teaching practice and say to yourself "Are there any other strategies that I could use other than push ups?" Just try it and see what happens. I did and it changed my teaching practice for the better.

Yea, let's stop feeding the trolls. But until we do, where exactly do you teach?

[ggab704]

I really would not approve you teaching my kids. I would probably bring my concerns to your administration. Students become unfocused because of lack of engagement. A great teacher keeps their students engaged. Isn't that the biggest part of teaching? Learning who your student are and adapting to make the strongest connection with them that you can? Isn't that the art of teaching?

Maybe the problem is how you're presenting the information? If you take yourself out of the equation then you're not allowing yourself to grow.

Reflect on your teaching practice and say to yourself "Are there any other strategies that I could use other than push ups?" Just try it and see what happens. I did and it changed my teaching practice for the better.

Ashy

can we use your method for freshman marching band and leave it out of drum corps?

[RLamb]

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Edited August 20, 2010 by RLamb