ann_and_scott Posted August 23, 2010 Share Posted August 23, 2010 I only saw Pioneer once this season, and that was late in the season, in Centerville, Oh. They were the first world class corps to perform and they came across well. I remember the person next to me commenting that they had goosebumps, and that the average "fan in stands" sitting around me seemed to enjoy them. So, they were appreciated in the "heartland," and I think there's something to be said for that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Brace Posted August 23, 2010 Share Posted August 23, 2010 you're way too hung up on the God stuff. There are many reasons why Pio isn't marching a full 150, and I'm sure religion is last on the list well, it's the only thing I could think of without directly impugning the entire organization top to bottom. It is a symptom of what's wrong...to tied to the past. Relic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Brace Posted August 23, 2010 Share Posted August 23, 2010 I don't understand people you wanted pioneer to be better this year we were, you wanted more membership we did, you didn't want irish music you got it, so I don't understand why people still complaining, oh we finish last oh well that doesn't mean pioneer is going to fold there's a next year who knows pioneer may give the big babies a "BIG" surprise in 2011, everybody predicted cavaliers out of the top 5 this season but look what happend they finish in second place so just wait. and there's something I wouldn't have expected...comparing Pioneer to Cavies. Yeah, not related at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Brace Posted August 23, 2010 Share Posted August 23, 2010 Wow.....I am so happy you've got it all figured out......there are so many things in this post that make no sense......and trust me; I am an insider..... I can't wait for you to set me straight. Help me out here. How is the current Pioneer not a shadow of what the corps was 10-12 years ago. Hold on...I'll get my next cup of coffee. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Brace Posted August 23, 2010 Share Posted August 23, 2010 Why is everyone so concerned about taking one morning off from practice each week? Do you really think that will make the difference for Pio? Look at Surf, they take 3 WEEKS off mid season. Church is NOT the issue here. If even one potential member goes somewhere else to march because of a potential Sunday spent in worship, then, in my mind...it's an issue. But, the corps' management would have already taken that into account and they have determined this tradition is going to stay...and the PANCAKES!!! Because other corps don't get pancakes. Anyway, not a big deal really...as Jeff Ream has pointed out, more issues keeping Pioneer as a shadow of their former greatness than just the church thing. Let me spin this discussion another way...I keep reading about how there is some sort of issue about Pioneer playing or not playing Irish music? As far as I am concerned, Pioneer could play anything they wanted as long as it was performed well and had a World Class difficulty level. Whether it is Irish or not makes little difference to me. Just make it interesting. The stuff they played this year...the church music...if you analyze it and I have many times...much of the more up to date church music is redundant...on purpose. It is written to drive a message by repeating lyrics and musical phrases over and over again. I mean, it's effective for a church's purpose. However, for a drum corps show...seldom do the "sing alongs" work really well for this era. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Staxrocks93 Posted August 23, 2010 Share Posted August 23, 2010 If even one potential member goes somewhere else to march because of a potential Sunday spent in worship, then, in my mind...it's an issue. But, the corps' management would have already taken that into account and they have determined this tradition is going to stay...and the PANCAKES!!! Because other corps don't get pancakes.Anyway, not a big deal really...as Jeff Ream has pointed out, more issues keeping Pioneer as a shadow of their former greatness than just the church thing. Let me spin this discussion another way...I keep reading about how there is some sort of issue about Pioneer playing or not playing Irish music? As far as I am concerned, Pioneer could play anything they wanted as long as it was performed well and had a World Class difficulty level. Whether it is Irish or not makes little difference to me. Just make it interesting. The stuff they played this year...the church music...if you analyze it and I have many times...much of the more up to date church music is redundant...on purpose. It is written to drive a message by repeating lyrics and musical phrases over and over again. I mean, it's effective for a church's purpose. However, for a drum corps show...seldom do the "sing alongs" work really well for this era. Don't you have errands to run? Nothing like beating a dead horse......must make you feel good to think you are so smart. We are all learning so much from you. Man, this DCP thing is awesome! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BozzlyB Posted August 23, 2010 Share Posted August 23, 2010 (edited) Except it's not a requirement. It's an opportunity that is presented to members to utilize if they so desire. Every member may not be required to participate in church, but if even 10% of the membership goes on a regular basis it makes for pretty inefective rehearsal time for everyone else. I think the church thing could be handled differently. Bible groups or what have you could get together on the bus after shows, there just seems to be a lot of ways support their interest in worship that wouldn't require taking half a day off once a week. Most corps have 1 (maybe 2 at most) free days built into their summer. Pio effectivley has 5 just for church, plus any more free time built in. If you're trying to get out of last place rehearsing less than everyone else is not the answer. If Pio takes a good number of the membership to church every sunday that effectively erases a meaningful 4 hour rehearsal block. Thats roughly 40 hours of rehearsal time out the window over the season. Edited August 23, 2010 by BozzlyB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BozzlyB Posted August 23, 2010 Share Posted August 23, 2010 As for losing, yeah started with a corps that had been inactive for a year then came back with 50+% rookies. Went a full year coming in last as we were building for the future, then few more years until we hit DCA top 10. So I'm familiar with taking lumps now while looking towards the future. Point is during the lean years, the members knew what (little) to expect but it was our business to put up with it and *bleep* anyone who told us we were wasting our time and should be with another corps or staying home. Also heard second hand that some "DC fans" thought we should have not come back as it was "emabarrassing". So IMO, who are we to say if the members are wasting their time there. Don't think you are saying it but have seen that inferred elsewhere. Taking your lumps for a few years while rebuilding towards compettitive success is vastly different than taking last place every year because of a philosophy that is dug in like a tic. If Pioneer truly doesn't care about placement they should make no changes. They will continue to get last, but it won't matter because they will retain their unique "niche within a niche" status. I think it would be a BETTER message to send their membership, that the things that the organizations hold dear and compettitive success are not mutually exclusive, that with a healthy dose of balance and willingness to change, competitive success can be realized without sacrificing their identity and what sets them apart. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BozzlyB Posted August 23, 2010 Share Posted August 23, 2010 Tom,I was not referring to you personally and I am very happy that you support other corps. Almost all of them need as much help as they can get. My point was that many people posting here think they have the answers but do nothing but offer opinions. From other threads it is obvious that you actively support other corps. On the other hand, you have been ragging Pioneer all season about the kids going to church, the show about the corps prayer and generally everything that Pioneer stands for. So, Pioneer is not run to your liking. Well sir, my son marches with Pioneer and I don't agree with everything they do either. The point is that I don't make it a big issue on a public forum. You are certainly entitled to your opinion but if you aren't a part of the solution then you are part of the problem. Pioneer has done a lot of good for a lot of kids over the years, and they continue to do it. What they do doesn't fit everyone's model but they are footing the bills and making an honest effort to contribute to the activity. I don't believe many people can find fault with that. The "if you aren't my friend you're my enemy" argument is a little weak and smacks of "I don't have any good solutions to bring to the table so if you can't fix it your opinion doesn't count. This is an online forum, in which the OP asked for opinions, and you're expressing distaste that people are expressing their opinions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BozzlyB Posted August 23, 2010 Share Posted August 23, 2010 There are a lot of people on here posting about what they feel Pioneer is in last place every year and making suggestions that they feel could change things, as the OP requested of people in this thread. As expected, a host of members, parents, and supporters have risen to the corps defense, enraged at the notion that CHANGES might be necessary to realize a semifinals appearance. To all of you backing the current model, what do YOU think needs to happen for Pioneer to improve? If members, staff, and parents of this corps will state in response to this that competitive success is absolutely Pioneer's bottom priority, then I'll never post in one of these threads again. But, if it is anywhere close to being important to the corps, then discussions regarding what could make them more competitive should not be dismissed by the people who can actually make a difference for the corps i.e. members, alumni, staffers, parents etc.... (and no it is not the responsibility of everyone posting in an online forum to solve the corps financial problems in order to voice an opinion) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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