Indianapolis Attendance

[84skyrydr]

Numbers for 2008 were just under 17.5K

2009 were 15.5K

2010 were higher than 2009.

Why does DCI owe anyone the attendance numbers? I don't get that. When the news is good, DCI will trumpet it. When the numbers aren't so good, they don't share it. Sounds like smart PR to me.

They don't owe their fans anything. This is an attendance thread, why is everyone so upset with the request for those numbers. Smart PR? So you are saying the activity is hurting if they don't release their numbers? Why do they release them at baseball games, every game? Not just the good games. Like I said earlier, when you have nothing to hide, you hide nothing. Done with debate, the numbers won't be released and it doesn't matter.

Edited September 5, 2010 by 84skyrydr

[Stu]

I know you must know that the shows do change....get tweaked...add new things, etc. Finals is not the same as any other show. Period. It's the best product the corps will put out and the best the performers are going to be at that point in time. Minneapolis, San Antonio, Atlanta, etc are great 'big' shows..but not the climax of any performance. You can only see that at finals. Both Open and World classes!

Steelers v. Packers meet in mid Dec and again at the Super Bowl in January.

Yankees v. Cardinals meet in mid Sept and again in the World Series in October.

Devils v. Cavaliers meet in mid July and again at Finals in Aug.

You are telling me that the Devils and Cavaliers shows will change their performances anywhere as drastically in that time period, with different lineups, different order, especially to the untrained eye and untrained ear of the typical fan, as the baseball or football games? Come on!!! The DCI shows do not change 'That Much' over a three week span from San Antonio to Indy! I can see the Cavaliers in San Antonio, then see them at Finals and point out to someone in the stands at Finals three minuets into their show to watch this cool move (and it happens); and I can see the Devils in San Antonio, then see them at Finals and point out to someone in the stands at Finals four minuets into their show to listen for this cool horn passage (and it happens). They might execute those things slightly better, or might have tweaked a drill move here or there, and the atmosphear at finals has more of a buzz in the air, but it is still the same show package performed by each corps!!! Can I watch the Cards v. Yankees in Sept, see Pujols hit a home run in the fifth with two men on base, and then at the World Series point to someone and say, look here, this is where Pujols is going to hit a home run with two men on base?!?! Nope; the most I can do is say that he is coming up to bat; nothing more (and that is only if the Manager has not changed the lineup). Give me a break already; there is way more "unexpected" "never before seen" excitement in the World Series or the Super Bowl after seeing those teams earlier in the season than seeing DCI corps perform in regionals then again at finals!

Edited September 5, 2010 by Stu

[Michael Boo]

Steelers v. Packers meet in mid Dec and again at the Super Bowl in January.

Yankees v. Cardinals meet in mid Sept and again in the World Series in October.

Devils v. Cavaliers meet in mid July and again at Finals in Aug.

You are telling me that the Devils and Cavaliers shows will change their performances anywhere as drastically in that time period, with different lineups, different order, especially to the untrained eye and untrained ear of the typical fan, as the baseball or football games? Come on!!! The DCI shows do not change 'That Much' over a three week span from San Antonio to Indy! I can see the Cavaliers in San Antonio, then see them at Finals and point out to someone in the stands at Finals three minuets into their show to watch this cool move (and it happens); and I can see the Devils in San Antonio, then see them at Finals and point out to someone in the stands at Finals four minuets into their show to listen for this cool horn passage (and it happens). They might execute those things slightly better, or might have tweaked a drill move here or there, and the atmosphear at finals has more of a buzz in the air, but it is still the same show package performed by each corps!!! Can I watch the Cards v. Yankees in Sept, see Pujols hit a home run in the fifth with two men on base, and then at the World Series point to someone and say, look here, this is where Pujols is going to hit a home run with two men on base?!?! Nope; the most I can do is say that he is coming up to bat; nothing more (and that is only if the Manager has not changed the lineup). Give me a break already; there is way more "unexpected" "never before seen" excitement in the World Series or the Super Bowl after seeing those teams earlier in the season than seeing DCI corps perform in regionals then again at finals!

Perhaps we shouldn't be comparing going to the DCI World Championships with going to the Super Bowl or World Series. It's not fair to professional baseball or professional football.

Professional sports players are paid handsomely to be good. And still they fail at something more than they succeed. (For example, not making it down the field, not blocking the passer, having a batting average where not hitting seven out of ten times is still considered very good...)

Drum corps members aren't being paid to achieve excellence and yet they do it and at the end of the season, it's just not going to get any better. At the end, they're succeeding in ways professional sports athletes could only hope to achieve. If a baseball or football player was as successful at what they do at the end of the season as our typical drum corps kid is, they would have bronze statues erected to their athletic prowess practically overnight. And still, they don't have to achieve near perfection; they just have to achieve something closer to perfection than the guys on the other team. A pitcher only has to get three outs in each inning. It doesn't matter if he has a no-hitter going or not.

So, to anyone who would say "Come on!!!" or "Give me a break already," I'd have to say, "Come on!!!" and "Give me a break already."

[Stu]

Perhaps we shouldn't be comparing going to the DCI World Championships with going to the Super Bowl or World Series. It's not fair to professional baseball or professional football.

Professional sports players are paid handsomely to be good. And still they fail at something more than they succeed. (For example, not making it down the field, not blocking the passer, having a batting average where not hitting seven out of ten times is still considered very good...)

Drum corps members aren't being paid to achieve excellence and yet they do it and at the end of the season, it's just not going to get any better. At the end, they're succeeding in ways professional sports athletes could only hope to achieve. If a baseball or football player was as successful at what they do at the end of the season as our typical drum corps kid is, they would have bronze statues erected to their athletic prowess practically overnight. And still, they don't have to achieve near perfection; they just have to achieve something closer to perfection than the guys on the other team. A pitcher only has to get three outs in each inning. It doesn't matter if he has a no-hitter going or not.

So, to anyone who would say "Come on!!!" or "Give me a break already," I'd have to say, "Come on!!!" and "Give me a break already."

OMG; I cannot believe what I just read. Michael, I have high respect for you, and hopefully you are kidding!!! If you are kidding, please disregard the following; If not, please read this in the spirit intended, one of disbelief in what you have called failure.

I marched corps; I have been through the high physical demands of corps. I also know that success in corps is defined by the process of attempting to get as close to perfection as humanly possible. However, I have also played scholastic baseball and scholastic football. There is a huge difference here between drum corps and most other sports. The lack of a unit called the Defense.

The object of the defense in sports is to become the adversary of the offense and stop them in their tracks. So, to say that an offensive batter with a .300 batting average or an offensive running back only making a few yards on each play in football is considered failure is utterly and condescendingly ridiculous. Have you ever, I mean ever, tried to hit an object hurling at you over 90mph multiple times? Have you ever gotten pummeled and thrown to the ground by a 340 pound man over and over in the span of an hour while having to get up after each play? Have you ever run so fast over and over and over that your lungs feel like they are going to blow out of your body on fire, but you still have to continue doing what you are doing for the next hour? The job of the defense is to keep you from hitting the ball, to keep you from making yardage, to wear you out so that you are more tired than they are, "to keep you from scoring". And it is that offense / defense interaction that makes the World Series or Super Bowl so unpredictable in play by play action which makes those games so dang exciting compared to any previous games played.

Drums corps shows, on the other hand, are competitions that only have offenses (so to speak) on the field; they do not have other corps with defenses attempting to stop their progression. So, they can attempt the progress toward human perfection without any resistance from the other corps' whatsoever. The issue here is that the closer a unit gets to perfection, the more subtle the change is from show to show. Therefore, it takes a trained eye to spot a slightly different Cavalier drill move from San Antonio to Indy, and a trained ear to hear that the cheese invert the Regiment Snares are playing is cleaner from San Antonio to Indy. There is no real, massive change in show design or execution in those short few weeks between the regionals and finals. Moreover, there are no unpredictable outcomes during the performances based on a defense trying to stop the corps from doing their best. Put the Bluecoats out there every week tackling the Cadets and you will see that executing the drill moves at a .300 average is pretty darn hard to accomplish!

Lastly, it is that offense / defense adversarial interaction which draws hundreds of thousands of fans to go to the Super Bowl or World Series, and millions more of them to watch the games on TV. Since there is not that unpredictable excitement in DCI from San Antonio to Indy, where the outcome can drastically change from game to game, is there any wonder why a person would go to a regional, which is close by, and not the finals, which might take a flight to attend?

Edited September 5, 2010 by Stu

[Michael Boo]

OMG; I cannot believe what I just read. Michael, I have high respect for you, and hopefully you are kidding!!! If you are kidding, please disregard the following; If not, please read this in the spirit intended, one of disbelief in what you have called failure.

Stu:

It's not what I call failure. It's what numerous sports analysts I've heard over the years call failure...the point that at the professional level, with people working against you and trying to prevent you to succeed, having a failure rate of 70% still puts one in the upper levels of some sports.

Lastly, it is that offense / defense adversarial interaction which draws hundreds of thousands of fans to go to the Super Bowl or World Series, and millions more of them to watch the games on TV. Since there is not that unpredictable excitement in DCI from San Antonio to Indy, where the outcome can drastically change from game to game, is there any wonder why a person would go to a regional, which is close by, and not the finals, which might take a flight to attend?

My point since I brought up the subject wasn't that people shouldn't go to regionals if they couldn't make the World Championships, nor that they should go to the World Championships whether they could afford it or not, but that going to the World Championships is the dream of every serious drum corps fan, being the ultimate offering of drum corps...whether they actually can make it or not.

[Stu]

My point since I brought up the subject wasn't that people shouldn't go to regionals if they couldn't make the World Championships, nor that they should go to the World Championships whether they could afford it or not, but that going to the World Championships is the dream of every serious drum corps fan, being the ultimate offering of drum corps...whether they actually can make it or not.

I agree with your point that Finals is the ultimate offering for DCI fans. That said, my original point way back in this thread, which created this rabbit chase, is that fans from Texas would have more incentive to actually go to Finals if they did not have the easy opportunity to see "all" of the corps in San Antonio; that fans from Georgia and Florida would have more incentive to actually go to Finals if they did not have the easy opportunity to see "all" of the corps in Atlanta. I contend that if Finals was the "only show where all corps met at one venue", Finals would have a better chance at being packed.

Edited September 5, 2010 by Stu

[Michael Boo]

I agree with your point that Finals is the ultimate offering for DCI fans. That said, my original point way back in this thread, which created this rabbit chase, is that fans from Texas would have more incentive to actually go to Finals if they did not have the easy opportunity to see "all" of the corps in San Antonio; that fans from Georgia and Florida would have more incentive to actually go to Finals if they did not have the easy opportunity to see "all" of the corps in Atlanta. I contend that if Finals was the "only show where all corps met at one venue", Finals would have a better chance at being packed.

I can't disagree with that, Stu. It seems we've been making two different points that seemed to run counter to each other's position, and yet actually reinforce each other's position.

I'm delighted that fans in various parts of the country can see all or most of the World Class corps at the various special shows DCI holds. Through that, I'd guess that at least a handful of fans have been bitten by the bug and end up going to the World Championships to see what it's like.

Now that we've figured this out, how about we go out for a root beer?

[Stu]

Now that we've figured this out, how about we go out for a root beer?

Root Beer! I am an IBC man; what is your poison?

[Stu]

I'm delighted that fans in various parts of the country can see all or most of the World Class corps at the various special shows DCI holds.

And I am sure that the DCI administration is also delighted to give fans the opportunity to see all of the corps at different venues throughout the season. But I do not think the people at DCI thought about the "unintended consequence" of fans having the ability to see (all) the corps in various venues actually lowers their incentive to attend Finals; thus Finals has less people in attendance than desired.

Edited September 5, 2010 by Stu

[Michael Boo]

And I am sure that the DCI administration is also delighted to give fans the opportunity to see all of the corps at different venues throughout the season. But I do not think the people at DCI thought about the "unintended consequence" of fans having the ability to see (all) the corps in various venues actually lowers their incentive to attend Finals; thus Finals has less people in attendance than desired.

I'm not around the DCI people very often as I don't live in Indianapolis, but I do remember hearing at the January meeting the mention that while attendance at the World Championships could be higher, overall attendance at the featured shows resulted in far more fans seeing all the World Class corps than had been the case in the past.

There may well be a cause and effect relationship to this. I don't know if it was anticipated, but I'd be surprised if it wasn't considered. It's kind of a balancing act along the lines of "no good deed goes unpunished."