MarimbasaurusRex Posted August 31, 2010 Share Posted August 31, 2010 Funny, all the talk about how it looks sloppy and whatnot .. yet I addressed that several pages ago and NOBODY wants to tackle the right arm issue. Me: Trumpet Player by trade although I've taught several drumlines and do have some mad skills with the wood and skin ... but I've never marched in a line ........ period. The best hands man I know is Rich Hogan. We had many many discussions about tilt, arm positions, usage of different joints depending on the rudiment and combinations of rudiments ...... usage of arm/elbow/whatever .. when, how and why. So how many people who have commented on this thread are actually marching drummers/instructors?? How many of those people have ever learned more than 2 different approaches to playing technique? How many of them have any idea what I'm talking about with regards to arm position on the right arm? Dude, ??? I just looked back thru this thread 3 times trying to figure out what you are talking about. Or is this a joke and I missed it? To answer your questions... I marched 9+ years, currently teach a high school WGI line. Learned more techniques than I can remember. But the arm position on the right arm? Ya lost me... Hmm, "...usage of different joints depending on the rudiment and combinations of rudiments..." Spoken like a true horn player! LOL I feel for the drum lines you've "taught." Quick! Get the sticks out of this guys hands before someone gets hurt! (I tease... but really, somebody grab his sticks LOL) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supersop Posted August 31, 2010 Share Posted August 31, 2010 Dude, ??? I just looked back thru this thread 3 times trying to figure out what you are talking about. Or is this a joke and I missed it?To answer your questions... I marched 9+ years, currently teach a high school WGI line. Learned more techniques than I can remember. But the arm position on the right arm? Ya lost me... Hmm, "...usage of different joints depending on the rudiment and combinations of rudiments..." Spoken like a true horn player! LOL I feel for the drum lines you've "taught." Quick! Get the sticks out of this guys hands before someone gets hurt! (I tease... but really, somebody grab his sticks LOL) Wish we had some more old school rudimental drummers on this site who could see where I"m coming from. The number 1 problem with right hand/arm position on tilt is where the elbow is in relationship to your body. If it's in the right position, your hands will be on level plane with the head. Yes, there are rudimental drummers who use their elbow in a pivot motion to in order to extend stamina on long roll patterns. There are always different techniques/tricks that can be used ..... that said, very few drumlines use identical technique .. so bagging on my comment makes your statement look pretty silly. You might not think which joints in your arm you're using the most on different rudiments just because you've been doing it for so long. You might not notice the difference in arm movement ... or different ways to use the arm movement at different dynamic levels. And, because so few teach specific usage in their book .. it always looks sloppy (total lack of uniformity). Some caption heads don't care so much about total uniformity so long as the lines play clean. On the other hand, if a line doesn't use the same motion, stick heights, stroke force ....... it will never be truly clean. Am I making so much sense that it doesn't make sense? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarimbasaurusRex Posted August 31, 2010 Share Posted August 31, 2010 Wish we had some more old school rudimental drummers on this site who could see where I"m coming from. The number 1 problem with right hand/arm position on tilt is where the elbow is in relationship to your body. If it's in the right position, your hands will be on level plane with the head.Yes, there are rudimental drummers who use their elbow in a pivot motion to in order to extend stamina on long roll patterns. There are always different techniques/tricks that can be used ..... that said, very few drumlines use identical technique .. so bagging on my comment makes your statement look pretty silly. You might not think which joints in your arm you're using the most on different rudiments just because you've been doing it for so long. You might not notice the difference in arm movement ... or different ways to use the arm movement at different dynamic levels. And, because so few teach specific usage in their book .. it always looks sloppy (total lack of uniformity). Some caption heads don't care so much about total uniformity so long as the lines play clean. On the other hand, if a line doesn't use the same motion, stick heights, stroke force ....... it will never be truly clean. Am I making so much sense that it doesn't make sense? Well, let's see, I started as a rudimental drummer in 1972. Is that old skool enough? Unless you are playing at monkey stroke heights (15"+), the arm/elbow is not (or at least shouldn't be) a big factor in the stroke. Although it is somewhat responsive, it is best used at a minimum. And having the wrist and palm at a perfect horizontal is actually an UN-natural position. The forearm/wrist hangs naturally at an angle of about 10-15 degrees, so a tilted drum actually allows the right hand to play at a more physiologically natural angle. So, not sure where you're coming from on all this. Any technique can be performed uniformly or sloppily depending on how clearly it's defined and how well it's executed. No particular technical style is inherently sloppy or clean. Can't speak for other guys on the board, but I think about joints and arm/wrist/finger movement for a living. I notice and correct differences from player to player for a living. I'm a percussion technician and play and teach drums (and many other percussion instruments) for a living, been doing that for about 30 years. And when you start making sense I'll be the first to agree with you. Am I really the one looking silly? LOL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarrenE Posted August 31, 2010 Share Posted August 31, 2010 I think red is the best color. Anyone who disagrees is an idiot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BozzlyB Posted August 31, 2010 Share Posted August 31, 2010 Funny, all the talk about how it looks sloppy and whatnot .. yet I addressed that several pages ago and NOBODY wants to tackle the right arm issue. Me: Trumpet Player by trade although I've taught several drumlines and do have some mad skills with the wood and skin ... but I've never marched in a line ........ period. The best hands man I know is Rich Hogan. We had many many discussions about tilt, arm positions, usage of different joints depending on the rudiment and combinations of rudiments ...... usage of arm/elbow/whatever .. when, how and why. So how many people who have commented on this thread are actually marching drummers/instructors?? How many of those people have ever learned more than 2 different approaches to playing technique? How many of them have any idea what I'm talking about with regards to arm position on the right arm? Been a drummer since I was old enough to hold a stick in my hand. Played traditional grip 3 years in corps on flat drums, snare in my basement is tilted (just more fun and comfortable) play trad at my kit and snare is tilted slightly towards me buy not to the right at all. For me learning to play traditional grip was never more than a function of wanting to play in a drum corps snare line, in an era where everyone played on flat drums. I continue to use it now because my left hand trad chops far exceed my left hand match chops, but for me it really doesn't matter cause all I'm doing from a drumming standpoint is kit and marching snare, no match chops required. I agree that arm positioning is where the sloppiness comes in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stu Posted August 31, 2010 Share Posted August 31, 2010 (edited) Wish we had some more old school rudimental drummers on this site who could see where I"m coming from. The number 1 problem with right hand/arm position on tilt is where the elbow is in relationship to your body. If it's in the right position, your hands will be on level plane with the head.Yes, there are rudimental drummers who use their elbow in a pivot motion to in order to extend stamina on long roll patterns. There are always different techniques/tricks that can be used ..... that said, very few drumlines use identical technique .. so bagging on my comment makes your statement look pretty silly. You might not think which joints in your arm you're using the most on different rudiments just because you've been doing it for so long. You might not notice the difference in arm movement ... or different ways to use the arm movement at different dynamic levels. And, because so few teach specific usage in their book .. it always looks sloppy (total lack of uniformity). Some caption heads don't care so much about total uniformity so long as the lines play clean. On the other hand, if a line doesn't use the same motion, stick heights, stroke force ....... it will never be truly clean. Am I making so much sense that it doesn't make sense? Opening a door knob, using a screw driver, hammering a nail straight down or at an angle are all natural motions. As long as the motion is non restrictive and fluid, it is just a matter of getting the drumming strokes of a snare line uniform whether the drum is flat or tilted. Edited August 31, 2010 by Stu Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BozzlyB Posted August 31, 2010 Share Posted August 31, 2010 Well, let's see, I started as a rudimental drummer in 1972. Is that old skool enough? Unless you are playing at monkey stroke heights (15"+), the arm/elbow is not (or at least shouldn't be) a big factor in the stroke. Although it is somewhat responsive, it is best used at a minimum. And having the wrist and palm at a perfect horizontal is actually an UN-natural position. The forearm/wrist hangs naturally at an angle of about 10-15 degrees, so a tilted drum actually allows the right hand to play at a more physiologically natural angle. So, not sure where you're coming from on all this. Any technique can be performed uniformly or sloppily depending on how clearly it's defined and how well it's executed. No particular technical style is inherently sloppy or clean. Can't speak for other guys on the board, but I think about joints and arm/wrist/finger movement for a living. I notice and correct differences from player to player for a living. I'm a percussion technician and play and teach drums (and many other percussion instruments) for a living, been doing that for about 30 years. And when you start making sense I'll be the first to agree with you. Am I really the one looking silly? LOL I get what you're saying, I just think the approach to drumming in corps these days is much more wholistic in it's approach to style. Less focus on knuckles, wrist and elbow, and more focus on what flows and feels good and is low stress. You can mathamatically map out the appropriate way for someone to lay their head on a pillow, but it's a heck of a lot easier to just let gravity decide what feels good and just do it. Snare drumming was ALL wrist back in the day, one of the reasons those lines look so uniform is that from a uniformity standpoint they had MUCH less to clean, they basically removed all motion from the elbow up so all you had to clean was wrists and hands. Uniform, yes, but no where as exciting a style as what we're seeing today IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mgarside83 Posted August 31, 2010 Share Posted August 31, 2010 I get what you're saying, I just think the approach to drumming in corps these days is much more wholistic in it's approach to style. Less focus on knuckles, wrist and elbow, and more focus on what flows and feels good and is low stress. You can mathamatically map out the appropriate way for someone to lay their head on a pillow, but it's a heck of a lot easier to just let gravity decide what feels good and just do it. Snare drumming was ALL wrist back in the day, one of the reasons those lines look so uniform is that from a uniformity standpoint they had MUCH less to clean, they basically removed all motion from the elbow up so all you had to clean was wrists and hands. Uniform, yes, but no where as exciting a style as what we're seeing today IMO. Agreed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mgarside83 Posted August 31, 2010 Share Posted August 31, 2010 What about right hands and left hands? I remember one year (1990?) Railmen had half-scoops on their snares...only on the left half of the drum Hahahaha, now that's ridiculous! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlbionNY Drum Line Posted August 31, 2010 Share Posted August 31, 2010 tilt ftw (necessary post) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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