Questions for the Dinos!

[MarimbasaurusRex]

What were corps being regularly penalized for, that they were unable or unwilling to fix?

An equipment drop such as a rifle, flag, hat or a drum stick was a penalty. Rifle drops were fairly common because of difficult tosses. One famous drop cost Phantom a championship in 78 (obviously there were other tick errors so that's not really true but it appeared that way). On horns up there were sometimes mouthpieces flying out from the force of the snap and if it hit the ground it was a tenth (and a quarter to the horn instructor if it happened in rehearsal). There were also occasional steps over the front sideline. And time in motion was often calculated to the second in show design, so if tempos got a little faster or slower than usual (in concert) time in motion could come up a few seconds short when the gun went off.

[Michael Boo]

An equipment drop such as a rifle, flag, hat or a drum stick was a penalty. Rifle drops were fairly common because of difficult tosses. One famous drop cost Phantom a championship in 78 (obviously there were other tick errors so that's not really true but it appeared that way)...

I'm glad you qualified that, because I've always felt the same way about what happened.

For those who are wondering how a rifle drop can be "famous," this one happened while Regiment's rifle line was being featured right up front on the sideline (with no pit in the front). The guard members on rifle were wearing skirts and were kneeling when the drop occurred. What made this one so significant in people's memories was the rifle somehow got twisted up in her skirt and try as she might, she couldn't free it from the entanglement. DCI's Executive Director Don Pesceone was standing nearby and he went up to her and untangled the rifle. The corps then lost by 0.10 and people instantly thought that if it wasn't for that one most obvious penalty, Regiment would have at least tied for the title. But if it wasn't for a judge catching a single snare diddle in the wrong place, or a single bugle attack or release misplaced, or a single premature or hesitant step-off, the corps would have also tied. The poor girl just happened to be in the wrong spot for visibility at a most visible moment in the show, with all eyes on her as she struggled to untangle the rifle from her skirt.

[IllianaLancerContra]

I'm glad you qualified that, because I've always felt the same way about what happened.

For those who are wondering how a rifle drop can be "famous," this one happened while Regiment's rifle line was being featured right up front on the sideline (with no pit in the front). The guard members on rifle were wearing skirts and were kneeling when the drop occurred. What made this one so significant in people's memories was the rifle somehow got twisted up in her skirt and try as she might, she couldn't free it from the entanglement. DCI's Executive Director Don Pesceone was standing nearby and he went up to her and untangled the rifle. The corps then lost by 0.10 and people instantly thought that if it wasn't for that one most obvious penalty, Regiment would have at least tied for the title. But if it wasn't for a judge catching a single snare diddle in the wrong place, or a single bugle attack or release misplaced, or a single premature or hesitant step-off, the corps would have also tied. The poor girl just happened to be in the wrong spot for visibility at a most visible moment in the show, with all eyes on her as she struggled to untangle the rifle from her skirt.

It did not help that on the (33 & 1/3) LP the liner notes said they missed tying SCV because of a 0.1 penalty for a rifle drop.

[byline]

It did not help that on the (33 & 1/3) LP the liner notes said they missed tying SCV because of a 0.1 penalty for a rifle drop.

I've always been angry about that. What an insensitive -- and inaccurate -- comment to have captured in the permanent record. If Santa Clara had scored a perfect 100, and Phantom had scored a 99.9, with the only deduction being that .1 penalty, then yes, the claim could be made that the rifle drop made the difference. But of course that was not the only deduction, for either corps, and so I still fume whenever I see a misguided reference made to Phantom's "rifle-drop loss" from '78.

Whitney Densmore did a good analysis of the scores for Santa Clara and Phantom that year, and she attributes the difference to the M&M caption: from the RAMD Wayback Machine

[Michael Boo]

It did not help that on the (33 & 1/3) LP the liner notes said they missed tying SCV because of a 0.1 penalty for a rifle drop.

Oh, geez. I didn't remember seeing that. How unfortunate and how very wrong.

[MsBusDriver]

Oh, geez. I didn't remember seeing that. How unfortunate and how very wrong.

You're right Michael. It WAS wrong. But BITD, it was very very common to blame the Guard for any close "loss". Don't know why, but that's the way it was. Maybe that's why you see so many great and CLEAN guards from back then. We had to fight every step of the way to eliminate tics so as not to feel like we let our Corps down.

[byline]

Oh, geez. I didn't remember seeing that. How unfortunate and how very wrong.

Well, in fairness, the liner notes didn't exactly draw a straight line between the rifle drop and the loss, but it was close. And, just to be clear, the liner notes never stated that it was a rifle drop, just a penalty. But, of course, everyone who was there or watched the telecast knew what the penalty was for, so the linkage is forever stamped in our minds. Rondo wrote the 1978 DCI album notes, and for the record here's what they say:

(second paragraph)

"The prelims set the stage as no other before them had. The magnificent Rockies provided a deceptively tranquil background as North America's finest corps fought for 12 prestigious spots on the U of C field at Boulder. Tenths could make you . . . or do you in. That's intensity."

(and, for Phantom)

"The Phantom Regiment was downright hungry. Last year's bridesmaid, the Regiment wanted to throw the bouquet at the end of this night. They had a taste in the prelims and the night show seemed even stronger. A pair of 10's in GE brass and percussion and high field horns at 22.85 looked good. There was a tenth penalty -- but Beethoven, Stravinsky and Grieg never sounded better. However, this was to be both the most exciting and heartbreaking moment in Regiment history. The Rockford aggregation had made a magnificent challenge but fell short . . . by a mere tenth of a point."

Edited September 6, 2010 by byline

[tommytimp]

It did not help that on the (33 & 1/3) LP the liner notes said they missed tying SCV because of a 0.1 penalty for a rifle drop.

The albums don't actually say that at all. Rondinaro's liner notes say "There was a tenth penalty--but Beethoven, Stravinsky, and Grieg never sounded better." The yearbook doesn't mention dropped equipment either. They both mention the "ONE-TENTH OF A POINT OMG" but DCI's official house organs made no mention of dropped equipment.

[Michael Boo]

The albums don't actually say that at all. Rondinaro's liner notes say "There was a tenth penalty--but Beethoven, Stravinsky, and Grieg never sounded better." The yearbook doesn't mention dropped equipment either. They both mention the "ONE-TENTH OF A POINT OMG" but DCI's official house organs made no mention of dropped equipment.

Ah, good. That's a relief. Shows what selective memory can do.

[byline]

Ah, good. That's a relief. Shows what selective memory can do.

Personally, I wouldn't have even mentioned the penalty (which Rondo did). I would've just said a tenth of a point, and left it at that. Specifying the penalty just gives credence to those who claim that that was the difference, when in reality any tenth of a point deduction would have made the difference.