morganhill Posted September 7, 2010 Share Posted September 7, 2010 I thought both Renegades and SoCal Dream, esp the Renegades, would have placed much higher. Not being at DCA in person, I can only wonder what happened. Nonetheless, both corps made California proud! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomPeashey Posted September 7, 2010 Share Posted September 7, 2010 let's keep Kidsgrove out of this... they are some of the happiest people on the planet this week... and yes, their score went up 7 points in one week, but I prefer to believe THEY brought it up that far... I can tell you that while their brass both horn wise and marching wise were on the highest level... it's the Percussion and Guard that improved in leaps and bounds from the Bridgeport performance and even from my first viewing on Tuesday morning though finals... The guard especially popped a show at finals and got a very good score for it... So rather than a negative toward the judges - I prefer to recognize the hard work of a great bunch of drum corps people... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
O.P. Posted September 7, 2010 Share Posted September 7, 2010 As someone who has judged a few contests in my day, perhaps this may answer the question. In using the word "deserve" the connotation infers that a placement in a competitive event is a form of punishment. Thus deserving 10th place, becomes a totally negative outcome without any merit. In every contest someone comes in last. That's how we do it. The notion of competition in drum corps is to produce better corps, programs, and performances, not to punish anyone.So from my viewpoint, no corps has ever deserved to the one who finishes just outside of Finals. No corps has ever deserved to be last in a contest. That's just the wrong way to view how competition works in this activity. Whether a corps comes in the 10th spot at DCA or finishes higher, it doesn't change their performance or the audiences perception of it. It is what it is. To discuss the DCA Finals within such a framework misses the broadside of the barn. Bingo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spartans87 Posted September 7, 2010 Share Posted September 7, 2010 let's keep Kidsgrove out of this... they are some of the happiest people on the planet this week... and yes, their score went up 7 points in one week, but I prefer to believe THEY brought it up that far... I can tell you that while their brass both horn wise and marching wise were on the highest level... it's the Percussion and Guard that improved in leaps and bounds from the Bridgeport performance and even from my first viewing on Tuesday morning though finals... The guard especially popped a show at finals and got a very good score for it... So rather than a negative toward the judges - I prefer to recognize the hard work of a great bunch of drum corps people... Thanks Tom. Could not agree with you more. KS DID improve in both guard and percussion from Bridgeport to Finals. Great corps, great history, great people, and I am glad I got to see them 3 times!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coloradocorp Posted September 7, 2010 Share Posted September 7, 2010 The Northeast is a DCA stronghold and always has been. Everybody knows that, so no matter WHAT happens there's always going to be accusations of bias. Agreed. The NE has indeed been a stronghold of senior corps going back to the dawn of time and even before DCA - main reason - the majority of the corps are from that region. As for bias - there is bias in everything and everyone to varying degrees - but not as much from the 'unfair' side of things - but mostly humans vary in their preferences and assessments. I recall back in the early 60's for example - east coast drum lines tended not to score as well when they traveled to the Midwest and vice versa. I would suspect - today's subjective judging criteria perhaps makes the 'bias' of the judging crew more noticeable ? Or perhaps there really is no bias at all and the disagreements over the results of a show just a reflection of our own preferences ? Is it time DCA adds judges during championship week from across the country ? I tend to think overall - while spreads 'might' be different - the results will be the same in the composite. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomPeashey Posted September 7, 2010 Share Posted September 7, 2010 (edited) "As someone who has judged a few contests in my day, perhaps this may answer the question. In using the word "deserve" the connotation infers that a placement in a competitive event is a form of punishment. Thus deserving 10th place, becomes a totally negative outcome without any merit. In every contest someone comes in last. That's how we do it. The notion of competition in drum corps is to produce better corps, programs, and performances, not to punish anyone. So from my viewpoint, no corps has ever deserved to the one who finishes just outside of Finals. No corps has ever deserved to be last in a contest. That's just the wrong way to view how competition works in this activity. Whether a corps comes in the 10th spot at DCA or finishes higher, it doesn't change their performance or the audiences perception of it. It is what it is. To discuss the DCA Finals within such a framework misses the broadside of the barn." Bingo this is the problem with anonymous (sort of) posts... some need to be ignored and some are so profound they need to be shouted to the highest rooftops... the above words of wisdom from someone known as just "Jeff" come from one of the finest people in the business with a background of drum corps knowledge beyond most... He's a fine arranger and instructor and one of the top brass judges in the business for both DCA and DCI... Mr. Mitchell - please stand up and be counted... great comment... and by the way, where the heck were you this weekend Jeff? I never saw you... Edited September 7, 2010 by TomPeashey Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G-horns Posted September 7, 2010 Share Posted September 7, 2010 Where you place in a competition is out of your hands once you perform. If the Renegades were happy with their finals performance, they should live with that. Brooding over the placement would only serve to blight the memory of a great performance. Wow, Frank. (In a good way) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G-horns Posted September 7, 2010 Share Posted September 7, 2010 let's keep Kidsgrove out of this... they are some of the happiest people on the planet this week... and yes, their score went up 7 points in one week, but I prefer to believe THEY brought it up that far... I can tell you that while their brass both horn wise and marching wise were on the highest level... it's the Percussion and Guard that improved in leaps and bounds from the Bridgeport performance and even from my first viewing on Tuesday morning though finals... The guard especially popped a show at finals and got a very good score for it... So rather than a negative toward the judges - I prefer to recognize the hard work of a great bunch of drum corps people... I agree with you, Tom. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigbluekiltie Posted September 7, 2010 Share Posted September 7, 2010 Let me start by saying I am a huge Renegades fan,.....................I have made many friends over the last 9 nine years with folks from their corps,....................even went out for Chinese new year a few years back,.................................but, I was not surprized by their placement.......................I thought they had Bush, but I, and everyone around me were quite certain CorpsVets had them beat,................the hornline seamed tired,.............drumline was not nearly as clean as Vets,................though they did have Vets pit beaten quite handily I have always loved Renegades, and have friends who marched with them. At prelims, however, i thought they had the dirtiest show of anyone...they were loud and fun...but just not clean in any caption...i was surprised they beat Corpsvets and kilties. I sat with 14 others in a skybox, and they were shocked that Renegades made finals. Sorry...no disrespect...but the show was just not a finals calibre show. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HBD Posted September 7, 2010 Share Posted September 7, 2010 Agreed. Or perhaps there really is no bias at all and the disagreements over the results of a show just a reflection of our own preferences ? You are apparently way too smart to be in this activity Sir. Really Jay Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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