Championships lost to penalties

[snake33]

Regarding The Cavalier loss due to penalty in 1966 to the Troopers at VFW Nationals.

The penalty was due to a flag code violation. The squad with the American flag made

a squad turn and for a second the Illinois flag was in front of the American flag. Had

they all just did an about face, the Cavaliers would have won.

The odd thing is we were penalized for the same thing in the prelims, thought we had

fixed it and were wrong.

No dropped equipment, we didn't drop equipment. Anyway, I know all this because

I was there. We won American Legion Nationals. I think the Troopers came in third

or fourth.

[HornsUp]

Early in my instructing career, I decided that I did not want to see my unit lose a show on a flag penalty. Incidents such as the 1966 VFW were the motivation.

The guard instructors were always preoccupied with teaching execution and cleaning ticks. They rarely checked up on the A-squad, or looked for flag code violations.

So even though I was then mostly a horn guy, I learned the competitive flag code. And I would trail the A-squad during a final run-thru, looking for potential penalties. Especially if there had been any recent drill or equipment changes.

The Competitive Flag Code originated from the veterans organizations, not from the U.S. Government. (I don't know how it was administered in Maple Leaf territory.) It was used in all the uniformed groups contests - bands, guards, motorcycle drill teams, etc. Over the years, some guidelines were relaxed.

One big change was going from the 180 degree rule, where any flag in front of the National could get into trouble, to the 90 degree rule of the 1960s. That limited the danger zone to the right front quadrant. In that zone, the flag person could not be facing in the same direction as the American, unless their pike was down. This was the "trailing" penalty, because in the overall perspective the A.F. was marching behind another flag.

An "about-face" could not negate this penalty, and would have incurred another ! Because the Competitive Flag Code stated that the National colors were not allowed to execute an "about-face", or march "to the rear". These terms were derived from the M&M bible, the US Army field manual 22-5 Drill and Ceremonies. The code also forbid marching backwards, sidestepping, or any kine of dance step.

The code required the Nationals to be guarded within two paces, at all times. So if the rifles were elsewhere being fancy, at least one member with a sidearm hung with the A.F.

Vestiges of the Competitive Flag Code were in effect for the first decade or so of DCI. The result is that nowadays virtually all A-squads are parked in the Southeast 40.

You old T&P guys, feel free to jump in here and add some details or tell war stories.

[InspaDave]

Taipei Yuehfu in the 2005 Div. III Championships. Lost the title to the Raiders by .15 points due to a timing penalty.

[Northern Thunder]

One more that comes to mind was at 1991 DCI A-60 Championship.

The Mandarins lost the title to Pioneer by 0.4. Mandarin got 0.4 in penalties,

while Pioneer had none.

I seem to recall the penalty was for too much warmup time.

[Navillus WP]

Early in my instructing career, I decided that I did not want to see my unit lose a show on a flag penalty. Incidents such as the 1966 VFW were the motivation.

The guard instructors were always preoccupied with teaching execution and cleaning ticks. They rarely checked up on the A-squad, or looked for flag code violations.

.......................

Vestiges of the Competitive Flag Code were in effect for the first decade or so of DCI. The result is that nowadays virtually all A-squads are parked in the Southeast 40.

You old T&P guys, feel free to jump in here and add some details or tell war stories.

Horns-Up. Thanks for the comprehensive reply!

I recall seeing members of our staff spend HOURS and HOURS working with "The Colors" squad - FIRST, to eliminate possibilities for technical errors, and SECOND to integrate some "drill & routine" to (hopefully) impress the M&M General Effeccts judge "upstairs" that they were skilled, confident and competent. and thus added to the overal General Effect.

The goal was to do more with the The Colors squad than our competitors and certainly, do more then just park 'em in a corner to stay out of trouble for 13 minutes.

In the old "tic" scoring system , the little things that added up tended to separate the most competitive corps. ( I marched in a few shows that we lost on the inspection line...)

Carry on. -Bill-