Ray Priester Posted January 16, 2011 Share Posted January 16, 2011 Archie was the third corps DQ'd ... they won the Prelims ... for the life of me, I do not recall Skyliner fokelore depicting any involment there ... they were in 8th at Prelims prior to the DQ's and finished 6th at Finals ... the three corps that benefited from the DQ's were Pittsburgh, Morristown and Kewanee ... I do remember hearing stories of the riff between Archie and Reilly resulting in both being DQ'd but not NY ... perhaps Sky's most learned historian, Ray Priester, can offer come comment on what may have transpired in Atlantic City that year ... :-) I wasn't there, Andy and I never heard of Sky being involved in any DQs. Hey we may have even had one or two non-vets over the limit ourselves, but no one caught on or turned Sky in. The only story I heard regarding seniors in AC and Sky in particular was between Reilly and Lefty Mayer. It seems there was a verbal altercation between Mr Mayer and a member of Reilly. The Raider threw a punch and, unfortunately for him, he was well inside the radius of Lefty's infamous crutch or the danger zone. It resulted in the Raiders pressing charges against Lefty for assault and Lefty being put on the first train out of AC headed for NY before the Raiders or cops could do anything. I don't recall hearing if anything came of the entire incident. Most likely someone like Neuhoff or Frank Dioguardi or Mike Gasparre could shed more light on it, but I don't think they are on DCP. Ray Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reallyoldfrt Posted January 16, 2011 Share Posted January 16, 2011 I wasn't there, Andy and I never heard of Sky being involved in any DQs. Hey we may have even had one or two non-vets over the limit ourselves, but no one caught on or turned Sky in. The only story I heard regarding seniors in AC and Sky in particular was between Reilly and Lefty Mayer. It seems there was a verbal altercation between Mr Mayer and a member of Reilly. The Raider threw a punch and, unfortunately for him, he was well inside the radius of Lefty's infamous crutch or the danger zone. It resulted in the Raiders pressing charges against Lefty for assault and Lefty being put on the first train out of AC headed for NY before the Raiders or cops could do anything. I don't recall hearing if anything came of the entire incident. Most likely someone like Neuhoff or Frank Dioguardi or Mike Gasparre could shed more light on it, but I don't think they are on DCP. Ray Ray, you are absolutely right. The third corps DQed was Archie. They were the ones who put on the exhibition that night, not Harvey Seeds. Hey it was a looong time ago. As far as Sky's involvement in any of this I did say that it was the rumor mill that pointed the finger at them. I apologize if anybody took that as gospel. I do have some great pictures taken that night by a guy in my corps; Archie and the "King and I" show, Commonwealth Edison in magnificent uniforms, Skokie Indians terrific marching, and Syracuse doing, from my point of view, the performance of the night, and all the others, Kewanee BK, Morristown Colonials, Connecticut Yankees. It was my second time seeing a National Final but the memory is getting somewhat fuzzy these days. Gil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fran Haring Posted January 16, 2011 Share Posted January 16, 2011 Ok pal when did you guys ever go easy on anyone ??????????? LOL!!!! That time we actually did. He was really down for making the mistake he did..... but again, we were to blame too for not getting him up to speed on the rules. Again, winning tended to ease any pain that might have been caused. LOL. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajlisko Posted January 16, 2011 Share Posted January 16, 2011 (edited) Ray, you are absolutely right. The third corps DQed was Archie. They were the ones who put on the exhibition that night, not Harvey Seeds. Hey it was a looong time ago. As far as Sky's involvement in any of this I did say that it was the rumor mill that pointed the finger at them. I apologize if anybody took that as gospel. I do have some great pictures taken that night by a guy in my corps; Archie and the "King and I" show, Commonwealth Edison in magnificent uniforms, Skokie Indians terrific marching, and Syracuse doing, from my point of view, the performance of the night, and all the others, Kewanee BK, Morristown Colonials, Connecticut Yankees. It was my second time seeing a National Final but the memory is getting somewhat fuzzy these days. Gil Hi Gil ... if you have any pics of Sky from that show, please scan and e-mail me whatever you have ... one of our guys (Jim Stanko) is putting together a historical archive of pics, videos, scores, articles, repertoires, soloists and just about anything you can think of regarding Sky ... these pics would be a wonderful addition ... Send to ajlisko@aol.com Thanks, Andy Edited January 16, 2011 by ajlisko Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rudidrummer73 Posted January 17, 2011 Share Posted January 17, 2011 St Joes from Batavia only lost the NYS VFW Championships twice from 1962 through 1971...in 1964 for a flag violation and 1971 for overage member(s)...both penalties were called out by the Utica (Magnificent) Yankees...in fact I cant remember Utica ever beating St Joes without a penalty being involved. Donny Those weekend Utica v Batavia battles were great! I was part of the 1971 Utica corps that lost the NY A.L. Championship on the field at Rochester by 1.25. That was the closest I ever got to St. Joe’s on the field. Then, there was the protest and, sadly, St. Joe’s did not field a corps again. However, there were several occasions where Utica bested Batavia without benefit of penalty; pre-season standstill in Rochester 1971, is one (the only time I ever beat St. Joe’s). But, it’s on the field where it counted the most and on two occasions in 1964, the Magnificent Yankees beat St. Joe’s; July 12, 1964 in Oneida, NY and July 18, 1964 in Newark, NY to win the first ever NY-Canadian championship. Over the years, the edge sure did go to St. Joe’s…the dominant NYS corps of that period. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reallyoldfrt Posted January 17, 2011 Share Posted January 17, 2011 Andy, I'll be glad to send you the photos from 1957 Atlantic City. It's been a while since I looked at them, and I'm not sure about shots of Sky. They went on first, and they must have been difficult for our guy to get. They had the dark-ish unis in a relatively dimly lit Convention Hall. Jon Noren was the photo guy, and he knew a lot about photography. (I knew from nuthin.)I remember him explaining that he was using black and white film because it was "much faster" than color, allowing him to use a faster shutter speed, and to "push it" a little more. (Whatever all that meant?). I also remember him showing us his contact sheets after we got home and he'd had a chance to develop his film. Sky was on them. There is one problem. I'm in Florida for the winter, and the prints are at my home back in Massachusetts. I won't be home until about May 1st. I hope the delay is OK. Gil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajlisko Posted January 17, 2011 Share Posted January 17, 2011 Andy, I'll be glad to send you the photos from 1957 Atlantic City. It's been a while since I looked at them, and I'm not sure about shots of Sky. They went on first, and they must have been difficult for our guy to get. They had the dark-ish unis in a relatively dimly lit Convention Hall. Jon Noren was the photo guy, and he knew a lot about photography. (I knew from nuthin.)I remember him explaining that he was using black and white film because it was "much faster" than color, allowing him to use a faster shutter speed, and to "push it" a little more. (Whatever all that meant?). I also remember him showing us his contact sheets after we got home and he'd had a chance to develop his film. Sky was on them. There is one problem. I'm in Florida for the winter, and the prints are at my home back in Massachusetts. I won't be home until about May 1st. I hope the delay is OK. Gil Hi Gil ... no problem with a time delay ... the effort to accumulate Sky's history an long term endeavor ... I don't see though how Sky could have gone on first knowing they came in 6th in prelims prior to the DQ's ... if they went in reverse order, it would have been Kewanee or Morrisown that performed first ... maybe we'll luck out with some great shots! BTW ... we have lots of guys that are involved with the Florida Brass ... you ever stop in on them ... they rehearse in the Orlando area ... check out their website at www.floridabrass.org :-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reallyoldfrt Posted January 17, 2011 Share Posted January 17, 2011 Hi Gil ... no problem with a time delay ... the effort to accumulate Sky's history an long term endeavor ... I don't see though how Sky could have gone on first knowing they came in 6th in prelims prior to the DQ's ... if they went in reverse order, it would have been Kewanee or Morrisown that performed first ... maybe we'll luck out with some great shots! BTW ... we have lots of guys that are involved with the Florida Brass ... you ever stop in on them ... they rehearse in the Orlando area ... check out their website at www.floridabrass.org :-) IIRC the order of appearance at that time was by draw. Corps names were put in a hat, and the corps managers drew for their corps starting order. We in Massachusetts were always treated to the spectacle of Boston Crusader's manager, Joe Dowling, (A great guy, by the way) always, (it seemed) picking the #1 slot at the Nationals. I can't be sure if it was every time, but I know he did in Washington in 1966, and again, at Fenway Park in 1967. It used to drive the Crusaders instruction staff absolutely nuts. I suspect that's the way it was done at AC. I'm aware of Florida Brass. One of the guys I marched with in St Kevin's Alumni, Jimmy Dubord, is in their drumline last I heard. They're about 200 miles north of me. Not an easy commute. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reallyoldfrt Posted January 17, 2011 Share Posted January 17, 2011 Hi Gil ... no problem with a time delay ... the effort to accumulate Sky's history an long term endeavor ... I don't see though how Sky could have gone on first knowing they came in 6th in prelims prior to the DQ's ... if they went in reverse order, it would have been Kewanee or Morrisown that performed first ... maybe we'll luck out with some great shots! BTW ... we have lots of guys that are involved with the Florida Brass ... you ever stop in on them ... they rehearse in the Orlando area ... check out their website at www.floridabrass.org :-) Andy IIRC the order of appearance in the Finals was determined by lot, not prelim placement. The names of the final corps were put into a hat, and the corps managers drew for their corps starting positions. The defending camp went on last, everybody else by lottery position. We here in Massachusetts were always treated to the spectacle of watching the manager of the Boston Crusaders, Joe Dowling, (a great guy, by the way) draw position #1 year after year. I'm not sure how often he did that, but I know he did it in Washington in 1966, and at Fenway Park in 1967. Ii used to drive Eddie Denon and the instruction staff absolutely nuts. Gil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
audiodb Posted January 18, 2011 Share Posted January 18, 2011 The Royal Airs chapter was written by Jeff Helgeson (member 1963 through 1968). He states that Tony Schlechta apparently announced that had it not been for the penalty, the Royal Airs would have won. I don't doubt that Schlechta would have made such a statement. (He was often not quite "sober".) Obviously Tony was wrong, since I previously pointed out that without the penalty the Royal Airs could have gotten only as high as 2nd place. Another problem with that theory is that penalties weren't announced along with the scores that night. Recently released recordings of the 1968 VFW Nationals available from Drum Corps World (shameless plug) include a recording of the announced scores, to verify that much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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