Good News for West Coasters

[POSITIVenrgy]

Those not part of the G8 set up aren't forbidden from performing elsewhere and getting paid on nights when the 8 are having their own events, are they? If the new provision forbids them from performing in other shows on G8 event nights, and they signed off on it, they'd need to have their heads examined.

DCI is a co-op of independent organizations. If some of them have an idea that can help them defray their expenses, more power to them. That goes for every corps. If those who are unhappy with the special events program put less energy into #####ing about how 'evil' and 'selfish' the special events program is and more energy into coming up with ways to help the smaller, less competitive corps produce additional revenues for themselves based purely on their own efforts, that would strike me as a much better use of energy and time.

YAY!! Thank you for your insightful, informative discourse! I am exhausted by the negative, snide rhetoric regarding the "G8". Some of these DCP'rs are so tiresome in their relentless negativity. Even when we on the West coast will be treated to two additional top, WC corps this summer, there are those who have to find fault, and point fingers and question intent. Well, as they wallow in their unhappy, bitter, G8-hating anger...... I will happily look forward to welcoming the Cadets and PR, this June. And, wow..... what a welcome they will get from the West coast!!

[soccerguy315]

YAY!! Thank you for your insightful, informative discourse! I am exhausted by the negative, snide rhetoric regarding the "G8". Some of these DCP'rs are so tiresome in their relentless negativity. Even when we on the West coast will be treated to two additional top, WC corps this summer, there are those who have to find fault, and point fingers and question intent. Well, as they wallow in their unhappy, bitter, G8-hating anger...... I will happily look forward to welcoming the Cadets and PR, this June. And, wow..... what a welcome they will get from the West coast!!

I understand the excitement. It is a big deal to see a corps that makes an effort to put their entire show on the field by the end of June, a task that is apparently too complicated for one of California's own.

[soccerguy315]

Those not part of the G8 set up aren't forbidden from performing elsewhere and getting paid on nights when the 8 are having their own events, are they? If the new provision forbids them from performing in other shows on G8 event nights, and they signed off on it, they'd need to have their heads examined.

DCI is a co-op of independent organizations. If some of them have an idea that can help them defray their expenses, more power to them. That goes for every corps. If those who are unhappy with the special events program put less energy into #####ing about how 'evil' and 'selfish' the special events program is and more energy into coming up with ways to help the smaller, less competitive corps produce additional revenues for themselves based purely on their own efforts, that would strike me as a much better use of energy and time.

sorry, but banning the other corps from competing on Friday and Sunday (aka forcing them to take in less money) is EXACTLY what those 7 corps tried to do.

43The tour – more .Touring Corps ( AA) will perform Monday through Thursday and Saturday..Tour of Champions will perform Friday through Sunday and once or twice during the week .A Class corps can compete in Saturday events and weekday events as the schedule and geography allows

[POSITIVenrgy]

I understand the excitement. It is a big deal to see a corps that makes an effort to put their entire show on the field by the end of June, a task that is apparently too complicated for one of California's own.

Actually, the West coast fans are mostly grown-ups who "get" that early season offerings are a bit rough, and works-in-progress. All the fans in my group, for all the west coast shows were blown away by what "California's own" presented on the field. And, IIRC there was some discussion on DCP last summer of other corps who started with incomplete shows.

Anyway. 2010 is history. Get over it. It's tiresome. relentless. negativity.

[mobrien]

sorry, but banning the other corps from competing on Friday and Sunday (aka forcing them to take in less money) is EXACTLY what those 7 corps tried to do.

But it didn't happen. Let it go. Put the energy it takes to be snarky into thinking about ways everyone else can leverage their abilities to provide for themselves.

[mobrien]

sorry, but banning the other corps from competing on Friday and Sunday (aka forcing them to take in less money) is EXACTLY what those 7 corps tried to do.

I'd agree that was obnoxious, but it didn't happen. The 7/8 got their special events, DCI will still make a cut of those gigs, and everyone else is free to perform elsewhere and/or do whatever else floats their boats.

Life's happier if we don't spend energy being angry about things that don't actually exist.

Edited November 5, 2010 by mobrien

[capusctrump]

will they be brave enough to stop in Phoenix?

I was thinking the same thing,the last time the Cadets came to Phoenix,SCV were there but BD were not.And the only time I remember The Phantom coming to Phoenix was when both SCV & BD were playing Stanford.It could really be a boost to Arizona Drum Corps if all 4 heavyweights square off!

[audiodb]

In other words, again, your argument is "these guys aren't all that popular!" closely followed by "and it's not fair for them to use their popularity to make money based on their popularity!"

Not even close.

I have no problem with corps making money through their own efforts. And I have no problem with an agreed-upon collective of corps creating a joint venture (i.e. DCI) to make money for themselves. Where I draw the line, however, is when a subset of corps within that joint venture try to subvert the process for their own gain at the expense of the other member corps.

I also have a problem with this 'corps X is the draw' mythology....

Pure and utter nonsense. If you don't think they have appeal to the fans, then you have nothing to worry about, since no one will show up and they'll lose their ___n' shirts.

What you refuse to acknowledge is that whatever 'fan appeal' and 'drawing power' top corps have is a by-product of the competitive stage, a stage set by the prevailing event organizing agency (nowadays, that is DCI). Competition is what draws the majority of the interest in this activity. Without competition (and the organizations like DCI that sanction it), we would not have:

- the fan base

- the ticket sales

- the sales of media and souvenirs

- any way to determine who the 'top corps' even are in the first place

All but two of these corps pre-date DCI (perhaps Bluecoats as well). Cavaliers and Santa Clara were big draws even before DCI - to say that their continued popularity now is as a result of the organization they founded to capitalize on their pre-DCI popularity is an exercise in historical revisionism that hasn't been seen since the glory days of the USSR in the 1920s and 30s...

Cavaliers, SCV or (name any other top pre-DCI corps) were only 'big draws' in the context of drum corps field contests....and the 'draw' to which you refer was owed to their status as champions of the premier contests of the day (i.e. VFW/AL).

The big corps were the draws in '72, and they're the big draws now. This initiative simply puts the major acts back into the type of financial setting they had in the early 70s when the FOUNDED DCI.

That is incorrect.

The principal financial objective of the founding DCI model was to make touring practical for all DCI member corps, not just the top 5, 6 or 7. It was in response to the prize money practices in place prior to DCI, which often only paid the top three corps in a typical show, leaving numerous top-12 units out of the money while on the road.

Then, it was about the big corps making sure they were getting compensated fairly for the amount of fans they brought to the stadium.

Stillllll waiting for you to quantify just how many fans each corps brings to the stadium. Oh, that's right....you can't.

Now, it's about the big cops making sure they're getting compensated at least a LITTLE more than they were up til next season.

Well, until we get detail$ on how these top-8 shows are being run, we can only speculate on that.

As a result, west coast fans will see two of the big dogs early in the season, something that fan base has been hoping for for awhile.

....which, as I have already said, is good news.

[Rocketman]

There has always been the Top 12. In the 70s, it was a huge privilege to make the Top 12, if not only because there were so many competing corps!

In the 80s, there was the Top 6. (BD, SCV, Phantom, Cadets, Madison, + 3-4 other corps always trying to get into the Top 6, including Bridgemen, 2-7, Suncoast, Spirit, Cavies) If one of the big boys fell out of the Top 6, the season was considered a failure. If any of the others made it to Top 6, it was considered a success for them.

In the 90s, the Top 6 was solidified (BD, SCV, Phantom, Cadets, Madison, Cavies). Although Star always managed a Top 6 placement in 90-93, there was still no talk about Top 7 or anything like that. Whoever came in 7th was considered a failure in the psyche of the time. Only Crossmen and Glassmen made it to the Top 6 in the 90s.

The 00s saw two distinct things happen: The idea of the Top 3 (BD, Cadets, Cavies), AND the idea of expanding elitist status to the Top 7 or Top 8. Crown and Bloo's huge strides in the 00s, combnied with Madison's decline, forced the conventional wisdom to rethink the Top 6 idea entirely. Corps like Boston, Blue Knights and Glassmen each made strides into the Top 6. (An aside: The Bb instruments have had the most impact on leveling the playing field.)

The 10s are starting with OFFICIAL talk of a Top 8, especially with the clear resurgence of Madison and Blue Stars. The conventional Top 6 plus Crown and Bloo will become the Top 8 if modern trends continue. Blue Stars will have to be in that Top 8 for about 6-7 years to be considered elite, even though they're in 8th place right now. Bloo had 9 straight Top 8 finishes in the 00s; Crown had 6 straight.

The thing is, Boston and Blue Knights are hardly chopped liver! (Glassmen seems perfectly content in 10-12th place)

Maybe the Top 12 will actually mean something in the near future, even though there are less corps today. The 9th-12th place corps today are good enough to win in the 70s...that's how far the excellence has come!

Look, beyond 1-3, no one really cares where you finished, and, I believe, corps finisning out of the 1-3 spots probably don't care that much either. Now, talk to the 12th & 13th place corps, and you might get a different attitude about where they finish.

But, the G7 or 8 was not based on where corps finished as Regiment would have been on the outside looking in.

Edited November 5, 2010 by Rocketman

[Rocketman]

Here's what we have to do to "quantify," two shows within 10 mils of each other on the same night:

Show #1 Headliners

BD

Cavies

Cadets

Show #2 Headliners

Boston

Madison

Bluecoats

All things being equal, whoever brings in the most people, wins!

Edited November 5, 2010 by Rocketman