WHY?

[Jeff Ream]

All of you who complain about obnoxious balances DO realize that the ONLY people corps are balancing for are located in the press box, right? Doesn't matter that you're half-way up on the 50 yard line. You aren't the target. The balance isn't for you. At all.

right. so who cares what those PAYING to see you think, it's all about the judges

[Jeff Ream]

What if... now I'm just being devils advocate here... what if... drum corps... weren't... judged... ?

then it would be a super dooper G8 show that excludes 65% of the Wc corps

[corpsband]

well, the problem is, the judges do what the corps ( aka DCI) tell them.

that right there is a huge issue

first you blame the judges

then you blame the directors / board

then you blame the corps

then you blame the judges

See a pattern here?

To my ears -- balance has improved each year since the introduction. Corps are establishing their own parameters for when and how and what is used.

Judging is getting a fresh look from the Cesario initiative.

Maybe the world is NOT coming to end :-)

[audiodb]

People long for acoustic drum corps. I have a fondness for it myself. One of my favorite drumcorps activities : listening to brass lines with no pit and no battery.

Already, you know the next sentence will start with the word "but".

But arguing against electronics because it's too "easy" is akin to the "I walked to school in the 10 feet of snow and it was up-hill both ways".

No. Nobody wants to watch me walk through snow uphill both ways.

All the effects created acoustically were done so out of necessity not (as audiodb would have us believe) preference or superior creative experience.

There has never been any 'necessity' to do these things the drum corps way, when we've had a marching band activity running parallel to drum corps the whole time. Even when the AL/VFW organized drum corps field contests shortly after World War I, they organized marching band contests at the exact same time. Ken Norman and Tom Sorensen weren't forced to recreate the pipe band sound via the arranging and performing skills imparted to the 1972 Kilties....they could just as easily arranged for the Racine Elks marching band and used actual bagpipes. The electronic shortcuts that synthesizers provide for sound effects have been available to marching bands for decades. No designer, performer or fan has faced the 'necessity' of doing without those devices in that time.

So why, then, do we bother with drum corps at all? Why do people watch this stuff? Why do people watch live music performance at all, when we can record and/or synthesize music more reliably? Why do we watch people kick a soccer ball, when it is so much easier to throw the thing into the goal?

Oh, wait. You gave us the answer above....preference. For some strange reason, people find it entertaining to watch a challenging achievement....even when technology provides an easier route to the same achievement.

And no one went to shows just to see the occasional effect.

No one? You asked them all?

The larger point is that I'm confident that some people have gone to drum corps shows, stayed at drum corps shows, and sought out other drum corps shows at least partly because they actually found interest in the concept of producing music with that limited equipment set. The 11 example effects I listed are just a tiny portion of the overall palette of sounds created by acoustic drum corps.

In the past corps used sound effects to create mood and enhance GE. Today corps use sound effects to create mood and enhance GE. In that respect nothing has changed (snip)

Alright, it is no longer a question. You really don't get it.

There's a huge disconnect between this attitude and the attitudes that have drawn fans to drum corps in substantial numbers through the years. If your attitude is as representative of today's designers as you contend, this disconnect could cost DCI the difference between their fan base and the transient, family-dependent audiences that marching band settles for.

[audiodb]

I can't speak for the judges, but in 2009, I was on the J. Birney Crum video deck with the World Championship commentators right in front of the press box and I vividly remember Crown's show (and the reaction from those on the deck) that night. (The only other show I so vividly remember from 2009 Allentown was SCV.) None of us up that high picked up on any problem as mentioned and we were talking about the brass blend, so I'm guessing the judges right behind me didn't hear that as well.

Once upon a time, I recorded the Allentown show from that same platform. Learned a lot about just how different the sound is way up there (and way back there....for those who haven't been there, the "upper deck" is behind the lower deck....no overhang).

There are significant differences in balance at different viewing positions, especially involving amps. Pit amplification that sounds "balanced" to the press box judges may be deafening to spectators at closer range.

[audiodb]

All of you who complain about obnoxious balances DO realize that the ONLY people corps are balancing for are located in the press box, right? Doesn't matter that you're half-way up on the 50 yard line. You aren't the target. The balance isn't for you. At all.

And until all tickets sold are for press-box seating, I think there might be a problem with that approach.

[audiodb]

I've been engaging in online drum corps discussions since the days of Prodigy and Compuserve. I can say with certainty that online (as well as in the stands and pretty much everywhere else) the term "acoustic" wasn't used to define drum corp until electronics entered the discussion in the mid-00s.

Naturally. It was never a question until then. (Your date is a bit off, though.)

[audiodb]

To my ears -- balance has improved each year since the introduction.

1. What is your particular area of interest - brass? Percussion? Pit?

2. Where do you view shows from - down front? Up high? Press box?

[corpsband]

Alright, it is no longer a question. You really don't get it.

There's a huge disconnect between this attitude and the attitudes that have drawn fans to drum corps in substantial numbers through the years. If your attitude is as representative of today's designers as you contend, this disconnect could cost DCI the difference between their fan base and the transient, family-dependent audiences that marching band settles for.

Oh I get it. I get that your premise that creating an effect acoustically was somehow a pivotal part of drum corps is absurd.

What about all the shows (pre-electronics) where there were no sound effects? Were those designers letting down their kids? Were the fans let down by the (according to your logic) incomplete drumcorps productions with no acoustic effects ? Were their creative juices withered in a show with no opportunity to build a device to make an elephant call?

Electronics are a better answer to making many effects. End. Of. Story.

Do I feel corps need to use them?

No.

I am offended when they do?

No.

Do they make acoustic effects irrelevant?

No. Witnessed lots of acoustic effects in shows since electronics passed. Expect I'll keep hearing them.

Do I think it's ok to use them as an additional musical color (ie as an instrument not as an SFX generator)?

Yes. Subject to the same criteria as the rest of the production. Does it make sense ? Does is draw me further into the moment? Is it seamless?

Do I think some corps have handled electronics less than ideally?

Absolutely. Just like some corps came to Indy and still lots of dirt in the show. There's a broad spectrum of execution with electronics just like with the of drum corps.

Honestly I understand you loved drum corps they way it *used* to be. The first bugle I ever played was a valve and rotor baritone. But that's not the way it is anymore. The way I see it you can choose a priori to hate drum corps as it is today or you can choose to be open-minded. I find it much more enjoyable to be open-minded.

Edited January 7, 2011 by corpsband

[audiodb]

Oh I get it. I get that your premise that creating an effect acoustically was somehow a pivotal part of drum corps is absurd.

No....your twisting of my words is absurd.

What about all the shows (pre-electronics) where there were no sound effects? Were those designers letting down their kids? Were the fans let down by the (according to your logic) incomplete drumcorps productions with no acoustic effects ? Were their creative juices withered in a show with no opportunity to build a device to make an elephant call?

See, this is what I am referring to. I just explained in a previous post that those sound effects were just a few selected examples of a larger overall palette of sounds that drum corps offered over the years, and that fans have been drawn not just by "sound effects", but all the music, created with a limited equipment set....and you still go creating more strawmen than all the cornfields in Iowa.

Electronics are a better answer to making many effects. End. Of. Story.

In. Your. Opinion.

Honestly I understand you loved drum corps they way it *used* to be.

I don't think you do. Here's why....

The first bugle I ever played was a valve and rotor baritone. But that's not the way it is anymore. The way I see it you can choose a priori to hate drum corps as it is today or you can choose to be open-minded. I find it much more enjoyable to be open-minded.

I am not some dinosaur, fixated on the way it was when I marched....actually, my favorite periods of drum corps are a decade after I marched, and a decade before I marched (an era I never saw live). But that's neither here nor there.

Is there no middle ground for you? No choice other than to embrace every change, or "hate"? Is that why you react to my posts so strongly? Would you be more at peace if you knew how deeply I enjoy today's drum corps, despite favoring how it was a decade ago?