Mello Dude Posted February 1, 2011 Share Posted February 1, 2011 Bad example - how about Blue Devils 1995 and 2010? (by the way, the term "material difference" means a significant change in the tools used, the overall nature of the product, or the means used to create the product - from a material standpoint, drum corps is more or less the same as it was in the 80s and 90s; horns, drums, guard equipment, football field). Almost any of the top shows from '95 could have been done again this year and no one would have batted an eyelash because they wouldn't have seemed retro. That's my point; the activity hasn't really changed as much as some here swear that it has. Maybe some of us have just gotten older and grouchier with the passage of time. So you can't tell the difference: 1. 150 vs 128 people 2. Bb vs G 3. Synthetic sounds vs acoustic. 4. Amped pits vs non-amped pits. 5. Amped soloists vs non-amped soloists 6. Amped vocals ..to name a few. So you don't think Madison 95 would stand out as retro with BD 2010..in the same show? Make me understand what you are trying to say here.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted February 1, 2011 Share Posted February 1, 2011 Maybe you and Stu would be happy to know that Lady Gaga, puts a lot of things in her music videos and songs that have a deeper meaning to her than what first appears. There is somewhat of an "intellectual" side to her as well, and it's the kind of stuff that you'd have to research to get. nuance and finesse are interesting parts of the pop idol AND to drum corps. Infact I'd even go so far to say that some of her most devote fans are fans because of that nuance. And that they are drawn first by the music, and become loyal because of her nuances. Crown gives me the intellectual side of Second Chances, and is the Grass always Greener. I like to look at their show and apply the imagery I think of about their concept to the music, and visuals. Maybe even get background info as to why they ended their 2011 show with "The Promise of Living". It's great nuance that I love that is just another form of entertainment to me. and I realize that its unfortunate that others don't appreciate that nuance. ok, so maybe she does. now quick...how much of that drives business up? a lot of people go to shows to escape, or if they want, to read whatever they want into shows. and then, if they say what they thought, they get told their wrong and "educated" on exactly what Cesario called it on that video...faux art. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted February 1, 2011 Share Posted February 1, 2011 Many musicians in Vegas and Branson have DCI experience and Blast began its stage show run by performing regularly in Branson; and the least attended show on the Branson strip sells more tickets than DCI; but that is not my main reply to you mobrien which is this: As for those buffet eating limited aesthetic people you referred to, Ray Stevens is one of the primary supporters (both financially and musically)of the Shriner's Hospitals which help severely burned children; and the Osmond's opened a Hearing Center, because the two oldest brothers are deaf, and Marie co-created the Children's Miracle Network which helps terminally ill children (and the Osmond's help those institutions both financially and musically). These musically lower than thou inferior people of which you speak have helped more kids, both financially “and musically” through their what you call limited aesthetic entertainment, than most of us here on DCP combined (me included). Now, back to the program after this public service announcement. greened you again Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted February 1, 2011 Share Posted February 1, 2011 > not that I'm with Stu and his must be like U2 mantra... Jeff: I do not want DCI to become a vastly different activity supporting rock bands instead of marching units; but I think DCI could get many more people interested in drum corps by emulating the way commercial rock groups like U2 "emotionally reach" the crowds which in turn causes people to purchase those millions of tickets. drum corps will never get crowds that size. i'll tell you why: only half of the stadium can be used and no floor seating. no matter what we do, to many people we'll still be "marching band". now those two common sense reasons out of the way, yes I agree drum corps could do more to engage the average person. But I'll be honest, trying to go after audience lost right now is a better way to drive numbers up than trying to get the average Joe on the street. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted February 1, 2011 Share Posted February 1, 2011 Well, no. I'm saying that maybe DCI should do more research on its market. I'm assuming they are pushing for pro-stadiums and doing extra TOC shows because they know that a market is out there to be had. If you go and do these measures without knowing whether or not there is a market for it then you are shooting yourself in the foot. However, I do believe that the drum corps market has potential to grow... Will it ever get to a point where a drum corps shows sell millions of tickets... That only depends on society, and whether or not Drum corps or marching band will ever reach a level of acceptance in the mainstream. honestly, given the state of the proposal that launched the whole TOC idea, i'd say little research was done. I mean here we are, with the biggest 3 shows of the year in one of the newer and nicest NFL facilities...and attendance is going down. Oh and we keep ignoring the places recently that had the highest attendance and get ignored for most of DCI's history: Denver and California. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted February 1, 2011 Share Posted February 1, 2011 You realize that the point of junior drum and bugle corps is not "to make a lot of money", right? Seriously - go look it up in anyone's mission statement, and I don't think you'll find the phrase "building excellent young people and making a lot of money." Again, lowest common denominator entertainment, food, and culture is all around you. Go eat up. If Cavaliers' show was too deep, or the idea of "mirroring" in Devils' program was too much, then I say book it out for Branson this August instead; you can watch Andy Williams and never need to engage either your musical or your intellectual gears. you also realize it can't survive if it doesnt make money right? because tour fees will keep escalating, ticket prices will keep escalating, and then it will price itself out of existence. and I know where I'll be in August, but it won't be in a dome with tons of black fabric not making a dent into horrible sound. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobrien Posted February 1, 2011 Share Posted February 1, 2011 (edited) mobrien: A non-profit does not mean “do not make money”; it just means that all profits have to be put back into the organization and not into a private owner’s pocket. Also, if revenue is less than outlay the organization will certainly go belly up; DCI and the respective corps’ should be very concerned about making money. And now you are knocking Mr. Williams? A professional who has 18 gold and 3 platinum albums; and performed with Frank Sinatra, Bing Crosby, Ray Charles, Ella Fitzgerald, Aretha Franklin, and the rest of those, what did you call them, oh yeah, limited aesthetic entertainers. Well then, with all due respect, you really are well versed on both business and musical criticism and should call Dan Acheson to become a consultant. Now, do you have any constructive ways to help DCI grow, or are you still going to throw insults from the ivory tower at all the insignificant little people down below in Branson? That's nice. Their art is still primarily geared toward the simplistic and sentimental. If that floats your boat, more power to you - but that doesn't mean anyone else who aspires to something more interesting should have "the Branson aesthetic" being the driving force in determining what you should do with some of the most gifted young musicians in the world. It would be a waste of their abilities. My constructive suggestion for DCI has been voiced here again and again; look to WGI and create a competitive format for new corps made up of no more than 50 performers. Smaller venues, limited personnel, and a more wide-open programming format that rewards creativity and execution equally. Let them do MORE things on the field than the big boys can do, and you give the kids who choose to compete there a different kind of drum corps that is all their own. If you don't give smaller, local, part-time drum corps a format that rewards them for what they can do on limited budgets and time commitment, you'll continue to see the number of corps dwindle. THAT could actually do something to put new butts in the seats, since every kid on the field is worth 1 or 2 butts in the stands. But forcing every corps that exists now to change their programming to pop tunes and Americana won't do a d__n thing to bring in the unwashed masses, since to them, it's still a bunch of band nerds, whether they're playing Bartok or Kanye West. Edited February 1, 2011 by mobrien 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Brace Posted February 1, 2011 Share Posted February 1, 2011 Back to the question. I prefer live. I don't like my drum corps when they fade away. Oh, that wasn't the question. Drum corps is suffering no different than ballet, opera, symphony orchestras, concerts of all types, etc. The biggest reason is, there is little need to see performances live anymore. We have the immediacy of iTunes or YouTube. I predict sports will follow this trend as well. Already, college bowl games are TV only events with few if any people in the stands. I saw a college All Star game on tv last week from Tempe...they probably had 1500 people in a stadium that seats 80,000. So, we get everything we want from the comfort of our own home, car, or wherever. Some people begin to question the price for a ticket for the "live" experience, when I can get the blu-rays and pop my own popcorn. So, the arts, as we know it, are undergoing massive shifts from an old paradigm dependent on mass audience attendance. Now, it's shifting to getting the fresh product out in the spheres of the Tube, the "i" the xbox, the ether. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hrothgar15 Posted February 1, 2011 Share Posted February 1, 2011 The biggest reason is, there is little need to see performances live anymore. We have the immediacy of iTunes or YouTube. Exactly. This is why DCI needs to do everything it can to promote the (decreasingly) unique "drum corps sound" that is unlike anything you've heard before, and can only be truly experienced live. Yet I almost never see it advertised that way. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted February 1, 2011 Share Posted February 1, 2011 (edited) That's nice. Their art is still primarily geared toward the simplistic and sentimental. If that floats your boat, more power to you - but that doesn't mean anyone else who aspires to something more interesting should have "the Branson aesthetic" being the driving force in determining what you should do with some of the most gifted young musicians in the world. It would be a waste of their abilities. My constructive suggestion for DCI has been voiced here again and again; look to WGI and create a competitive format for new corps made up of no more than 50 performers. Smaller venues, limited personnel, and a more wide-open programming format that rewards creativity and execution equally. Let them do MORE things on the field than the big boys can do, and you give the kids who choose to compete there a different kind of drum corps that is all their own. If you don't give smaller, local, part-time drum corps a format that rewards them for what they can do on limited budgets and time commitment, you'll continue to see the number of corps dwindle. THAT could actually do something to put new butts in the seats, since every kid on the field is worth 1 or 2 butts in the stands. But forcing every corps that exists now to change their programming to pop tunes and Americana won't do a d__n thing to bring in the unwashed masses, since to them, it's still a bunch of band nerds, whether they're playing Bartok or Kanye West. actually, in the lower classes, WGI rewards performance more than design...that 7/13 thing for guards, and on the PA sheet for percussion, it's 25/15 in favor of performance. however, i dont see a more wide open programming format at the lower end. but in drum corps, both DCI and DCA, the idea is GE is the thing, and as such, gets weighted far more heavily Edited February 1, 2011 by Jeff Ream Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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